MP Cities Vow to Resist
CNN Mexican Cancels Visit
CNN 20 Percent Duties from Mexico
Now is anyone dumb enough to not realize that it is us consumers who will be paying for the wall if the following happens? Unfortunately the avid Trump supporters probably are...
"I will never understand the Liberal rationale for putting the wants of ILLEGAL workers / residents in front of the needs of LEGAL workers / residents.CNN Trump Wall Immigration
The low knowledge / low skill LEGAL workers in MN have high unemployment and their wages are too low. And yet the Liberal leaders are planning to spend tax dollars to fight against deporting the ILLEGAL workers / residents who are taking jobs and putting downward pressure on wages in our communities... Especially in those jobs that our poorest need.
Now I am fine with letting LEGAL immigrants who have thorough background checks enter America, especially if they have knowledge and/or skills that will make America even better. However the idea that hundreds of thousands of undocumented people cross the border each year amazes me. And though many of them are likely good people who come here for jobs, security, etc. I am pretty sure there are thousands who are engaged in the smuggling of drugs, slaves, etc. So it amazes me that people are resistant to making our Southern border very secure.
I mean many people say they want to cut down on the drugs, sex slaves, forced workers, etc and yet they want to leave the Southern door open. It does leave me puzzled" G2A
CNN Mexican Cancels Visit
CNN 20 Percent Duties from Mexico
Now is anyone dumb enough to not realize that it is us consumers who will be paying for the wall if the following happens? Unfortunately the avid Trump supporters probably are...
"By doing it that we can do $10 billion a year and easily pay for the wall just through that mechanism alone. That's really going to provide the funding," Spicer said, referring to a 20% tax. According to the Office of the US Trade Representative, Mexico's exports to the US in 2015 was valued at $316.4 billion. The trade deficit is estimated to be $50 billion."
66 comments:
"The so-called "illegal" immigrant is a problem from ten years ago, not today after the Great (Republican) Recession and Obama's fierce vetting and deportation activities.
Let's face it: Trump articulated for a whole bunch of people a racist, xenophobic set of emotions that demonized an enemy for people, to prevent them from seeing who really is messing up their lives--the Wall Street .01 % that Trump has named to his Cabinet." Constance
"Please elaborate, how are the 0.01% messing up our lives?
Consumer goods are inexpensive because we buy them from all over the world, we get fresh fruits/vegetables year round from all over the world, our mortgage rates are low, our fuel prices are low, we have free K-12 education for everyone, we have Medicaid / food programs and other welfare programs for the poor, etc.
Does it really matter to anyone what Trump, Gates, Buffet, Zucherberg, etc have in their wallets?
Now the things Trump is proposing will reduce the labor pool and increase the cost of foreign goods, which should increase the wages and job opportunities for many working Americans. Isn't that what the Liberals want? I mean look at all of the "increase the minimum wage" rallies.
Of course on the downside we will be paying significantly more for most things." G2A
CNN Money It Would Cost Americans
Trump it seems make actually be an idiot.
"I will never understand the Liberal rationale for putting the wants of ILLEGAL workers / residents in front of the needs of LEGAL workers / residents.
Why can't you understand it? I certainly understand your point of view. Neither side of the issue is all that complicated. Understanding different points of view, different arguments is really easy if you try.
--Hiram
Trump is a man who doesn't pay income taxes. So it isn't at all surprising to learn that he doesn't understand how they work. He has also someone who was humiliated personally yesterday by Mexico's cancellation of the visit of the Mexican president so he felt a need to lash back. Being a global laughingstock isn't easy for our ego driven president.
--Hiram
Hiram,
Since I am slow... What is the "Liberal rationale for putting the wants of ILLEGAL workers / residents in front of the needs of LEGAL workers / residents?"
And yes Trump's ego is going to be a detriment to effective negotiations.
News without comment, today:
Value of Peso falls sharply against the dollar.
Trump orders weekly publication of crimes committed by illegal aliens in sanctuary cities.
"Trump is a man who doesn't pay income taxes."
I am not understanding the problem. Trump is a man not REQUIRED to pay taxes, and he complies with the law.
"Trump orders weekly publication of crimes committed by illegal aliens in sanctuary cities."
Hitlerian.
Joel
What is the "Liberal rationale for putting the wants of ILLEGAL workers / residents in front of the needs of LEGAL workers / residents?"
It's not a specifically liberal rationale, but many illegal workers are here through no fault of their own. Many of them are children or have children who are American citizens. The political power of illegal aliens is growing stronger every day.
Those are some of the rationales. There are many more. The fact is you can rationalize just about everything. What I don't understand is why people don't understand that.
--Hiram
"Trump orders weekly publication of crimes committed by illegal aliens in sanctuary cities."
Too bad Obama didn't order weekly publication of crimes committed by New York City real estate moguls. If he had, we might not be in the terrible fix we are in.
--Hiram
I am not understanding the problem. Trump is a man not REQUIRED to pay taxes,
It just shows that Trump has earned himself a billion dollars without contributing to the nation.
--Hiram
Donald is basically saying to the world, "I have made a billion dollars, but despite the fact that I benefit from things like roads and schools, from medical research that has helped me live to 70 years. Despite the fact that my freedom is protected by young men and women of our military, thousands of whom have laid down their lives for my freedom, I don't contribute anything to them or to our nation because the laws I have spent millions of dollars on lobbyists to manipulate on my behalf, say that I don't have to."
It's a point of view, and quite understandable.
--Hiram
Hiram,
I understand that "Dreamers" are a somewhat unique group, but most of the Illegals are not "Dreamers"... The idea that the Liberals are pretty consistently against improving border security and deporting other illegal workers fascinates me. Low wages, unemployment and drugs are very hard on the inner city residents that they say they care about...
Also, please remember that one does not earn money until on sells that asset. That is one of the advantages of investing in homes and other real estate.
I understand that "Dreamers" are a somewhat unique group, but most of the Illegals are not "Dreamers".
But their children are. In fact their children are often American citizens. But the point isn't that people agree with the rationale, it's that there are rationales which people capable of being understood.
Generally speaking, both liberals and conservatives favor illegal immigration. Liberals favor it because we see new voters down the road; conservatives favor it because it provides a source of cheap, easily exploitable labor. You many not agree with those views, but I don't think they are difficult to understand.
--Hiram
Ironically, Trump's paying a very large amount in property taxes, sales taxes, FICA, etc is why he has a lower income tax rate.
Please remember that his corporation has to pay FICA for his employees... And that all of those taxes are deductions.
You could probably eliminate your income taxes if you got busy hiring people and building things... Our tax code encourages these behaviors on purpose and with good reason.
All of this somewhat pointless since we have no idea what he has / is paying.
Billionaires are a lot more expensive to sustain than single mothers. How many billions in money did Trump lose for the widows and orphans who own banks in his failed gambling ventures? How many poor people have paid taxes to make up for the fact that Donald Trump doesn't pay taxes?
--Hiram
Personally, I don't think most Conservatives favor illegal immigration... Otherwise Trump would not be so adamant to eliminate it.
Where as the Liberals are fighting tooth and nail to keep the border open and keep illegal workers even though it hurts the legal citizens they say they care for... That is what I find puzzling.
I am assuming it is the Liberal failed logic that we should allow every one to come here to be saved... And that somehow they will make others pay for that saving...
Trump did not lose any widows and orphans money. If those folks had any money invested with Trump-- unlikely on its face-- then they invested perhaps unwisely, and it was THEIR misfortune to lose money on the risk they took. Just the same as someone playing roulette in a Trump casino. Nobody forced them to play, and nobody forced them to lose, it was the risk they took in an attempt to profit by beating the odds.
And this notion that other people pay more in taxes because Trump pays less is not Trump's fault, but rather the fault of those politicians they keep trying to diddle with the tax code, creating loopholes for every conceivable special interest, and then railing against the tax code because people actually USE the tax provisions they themselves created.
I don't think most Conservatives favor illegal immigration
There are certainly many who do. And their rationale is easily understandable. And believe me, they are fighting just as hard as we are to keep the open border policy we have now in place.
There are lots of rationales for throwing out aliens, just as there are rationales for throwing out billionaires. I don't see them as relevant, but there is nothing difficult to understand about them.
--Hiram
How will a wall solve anything? Most illegals don't cross the border secretly.
Joel
Trump did not lose any widows and orphans money.
Of course he did. He defaulted on loans which is what widows and orphans invest in.
Otherwise Trump would not be so adamant to eliminate it.
Of course, there is no more perfect emobodiment of conservative hypocrisy on the issue than Donald. No one has spoken out more fiercely against immigration and no one has benefited more from America's open borders.
Trump-- unlikely on its face-- then they invested perhaps unwisely, and it was THEIR misfortune to lose money on the risk they took
Sadly, so many people in so many ways have been burned by trusting Trump. I would be the last to say it wasn't our fault. We knew what he was and is going in. No one is more transparent in his corruption than Donald Trump.
--Hiram
Joel,
Policy, laws and enforcement can manage the visa over stayers and refugee requestors. They are "on the books" and have some level of a background check.
Who do you think is most likely to run/drive across the border in the middle of the night? The most law abiding illegals?
My guess it is the smugglers who move drugs, forced labor, sex slaves, etc...
You're missing my point. Building the wall will have no effect on the VAST majority of illegal immigrants, and Trump is fleecing the American taxpayers to pay for it. I'm shocked you're not writing a hundred blog posts about it.
Joel
Your missing the point. The walls, personnel, electronic defenses, etc will cut down on the least desirable border jumpers and the illegal goods they bring across.
And it is a great jobs program. A win/win all the way around.
Please remember that this wall costs almost nothing relative to what we pay in welfare, medicaid, etc every year. And it will pay back for decades.
But the wall produces nothing also. It doesn't clean our houses, it doesn't flip our burgers, it doesn't harvest our crops. It doesn't give birth to American citizens who will grow up to lead our nation in the 21st century.
--Hiram
Hiram, are you making that old "jobs Americans won't do" argument? If you are, you are wrong. When ICE raided a packing plant in Southern MN and put 300 illegal workers on the bus home, the next day 1200 Americans lined up to fill those jobs. And with black youth unemployment at 40%, I think we have enough burger-flipping job applicants. Assuming that they get them before the robots take over.
Hiram, are you making that old "jobs Americans won't do" argument?
Nope. I am making the argument that jobs build wealth. This country is much wealthier than it was in 1607 when the Jamestown settlement was established by immigrants.
--Hiram
OK. Then if illegal immigrants take jobs from legal Americans, net wealth creation is zero or less, correct?
Actually I think the wealth creation is negative if the ILLEGAL workers are here taking jobs and depressing compensation in such a manner that tax payers end up paying LEGAL workers others who sit idle.
Not to mention all the other illegal things that occur in the USA because of lax border security.
I am still puzzled how anyone can be against strong border security.
We can still allow as many LEGAL workers in as we wish.
That has been my argument all along. Since supposedly the SSA knows where almost all of the illegal workers are working, it would be really easy to simply send them a letter and say "you are now a guest worker, here is what you must do." Unfortunately that does not solve the problem of all the criminal acts they committed up to that point, the least of which might be "illegal presence." Therefore, I believe in the "touchback amnesty" approach. You go back across the border, and if when you walk back in you have a job and apartment waiting and speak passable English, you can be a registered guest worker. We don't ask how you know these things and that your name is the same as that terrible criminal that had that job before you is a "wink, wink" coincidence. Maybe you can even become a citizen at the "back of the line." That would be very useful for some of the folks I know who have been her for 10 or 20 years, worked hard and made no trouble. It's what we tried to do back in the 80s but it didn't turn out well.
Then if illegal immigrants take jobs from legal Americans, net wealth creation is zero or less, correct?
No. When people go to work for other people, presumably wealth increases. If a kid is hired at McDonald's at 10 bucks an hour, presumably his labor is worth more than that to his employer. That excess value is wealth that's created.
--Hiram
Hiram,
Agree that the illegal worker and the business gain wealth, unfortunately it is at the expensive of other LEGAL potential workers and the tax payers who have to payout welfare, unemployment, etc.
Therefore the arrangement is net zero or negative for our society.
By the way, if we were not spending $1 Trillion per year on welfare, medicaid, etc.
And the unemployment rate for the low skill / low academic workers was closer to 4% I would agree with you. However that is not the case today.
Agree that the illegal worker and the business gain wealth, unfortunately it is at the expensive of other LEGAL potential workers and the tax payers who have to payout welfare, unemployment, etc.
So is that a tradeoff you are willing to make? I really don't see a shortage of lousy jobs out there.
--Hiram
If there were "no shortage of lousy jobs" black youth unemployment would be lower than 40%.
If there were no shortage of lousy jobs, I wouldn't see help wanted signs everywhere.
--Hiram
Jerry, Where do you get these wild numbers?
Hiram,
Why do you think minority unemployment is so high then?
Altervative Unemployment Measures
BLS
Maybe you got that 40% from Trumps strange fabrication.
Keep trying...
BLS Unemployment by State for African Americans
do you think minority unemployment is so high then?
the wages offered are too low. It's pure supply and demand.
--Hiram
The lousiness of a job is independent of the personal qualities of the individuals who refuse to take it.
--Hiram
Unfortunately I think you may be close in your assessment.
Just think of all those young adults who were left behind by the educrats and baby makers during their early ed & K-12 experience. Now we have a bunch of socially inept high school drop outs that many companies may be unwilling to hire/trust for even the most basic job.
And worse yet these potential workers think they deserve better jobs even though the illegal workers are happy to have those jobs.
Well if we get rid of the illegal workers, maybe the wages will rise enough to satisfy the discriminating tastes of our legal questionably competent employees.
Nevertheless, if lousy jobs paid more, more people would take them.
--Hiram
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/jun/20/donald-trump/trump-misleadingly-puts-black-youth-unemployment-r/
This is one time when Politifact, while going out of their way to brand a Trump statement false, also provides evidence for the "alternative fact" and, more generally, proof that black youth unemployment is simply too high and disproportionately so.
Now, since these teenagers have acquired no job skills, they are not worth any more in wages, whereas an illegal immigrant is more than happy with it.
Here is the proposition: Should we be encouraging people to break our laws, harm our citizens, and gain benefits from doing so? Should we allow our elected officials to flaunt those laws? I think not. It's nuts.
I say we should start by closing the border, cut off whatever federal funds possible and then arrest a few mayors for criminal conspiracy, or maybe accessory to murder, where applicable.
Hiram,
And if we did not have 11 million illegal workers who are happy doing those jobs for that wage... Maybe they would pay more.
Apparently the employers have enough workers since they have not been raising their wages. Maybe they just keep those help wanted signs up to help generate a list of prospective candidates., since turn over is pretty high.
Politifact link
Hiram offered:
"I will never understand the Liberal rationale for putting the wants of ILLEGAL workers / residents in front of the needs of LEGAL workers / residents."
Why can't you understand it? I certainly understand your point of view. Neither side of the issue is all that complicated. Understanding different points of view, different arguments is really easy if you try.
> I understand the rational perfectly. Leftist doctrine teaches the existing status quo must be torn down completely before a communal state dictatorship can be installed.
If you look around you, you will see that agenda in action everywhere. Leftists are attacking the family, religion, Caucasians, the heterosexual normative, even proven science. The need to create a void that they can fill with their totalitarian regime.
They are making gains, because they laid the groundwork in the public schools. We have two generations of kids that grew up hating America and everything America stands for. Now they are grasping for the reigns of power...the battle is coming.
~ Fred
Fred, I understand your viewpoint, and even agree with it somewhat and up to a point. However, I have long subscribed to the old maxim, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." To suggest that a leftist "rationale" exists is to suggest that Leftists are rational, and I do not see how that can be true. They do rationalize, but that's a distinctly different sort of "thinking."
I would like to go back to that "Obama's fierce vetting and deportation activities" quote. My goodness, why all the uproar now that Trump is doing it?
Obama had and has moral authority that Trump doesn't have. Even Republicans recognize that as they seem to be making the argument to the effect of, if Barack did it that way it must be ok.
The real problem is that we have elected a president who is unfit from office, and that sooner or later we are going to have impeach him, or remove him from office using the 25th amendment. It really is only a matter of time.
--Hiram
Two problems with that formulation: Moral authority is conferred, not innate, so when Republicans point out that Obama did the same thing, the argument that liberals make "from moral authority" and against Trump has no merit. Second, to impeach requires the President to commit a "high crime and misdemeanor" and the latest EO is perfectly legal, and neither. Not only that, impeachment must begin in the House where Republicans are in firm control. Unless Trump does something just foolishly illegal and gets all Republicans actually upset with him (rather than just afraid of the fear-mongering press), he should be secure for 4 years, at least.
I don't know... I could see the House getting real tired of Trump's childish behavior sooner than later.
The House needs to learn to quit running from their shadows in the mainstream media. They should do what is right and let the chits fall where they may.
It's like the age-old Republican candidate's dilemma: Should you hew to principle and lose, or forsake principle to win? The correct answer, of course, is to hew to principle and win. People Prefer Principled Politicians. Of course they must be able to articulate it and connect it with people, a task made exceedingly difficult by the unprincipled press.
And where do you get "childish"? We finally have an adult in the WH, doing exactly what he said he would do and in short order. "Childish" would be Senate Democrats refusing to show up for confirmation hearings to prevent confirmation.
I think we will have to disagree. I think he believes he is still on reality TV...
Donald Trump Twitter
Some of my favorites:
Two of our most experienced Senators are concerned about Trump being soft on Russia. What does Trump think?
"The joint statement of former presidential candidates John McCain & Lindsey Graham is wrong - they are sadly weak on immigration. The two..."Senators should focus their energies on ISIS, illegal immigration and border security instead of always looking to start World War III."
NY Times is a world famous go to news source... What does Donald think?
"The failing @nytimes has been wrong about me from the very beginning. Said I would lose the primaries, then the general election. FAKE NEWS!"
The US has gotten cheap goods for decades and the USA is responsible for OUR border... So what does Donald think?
"Mexico has taken advantage of the U.S. for long enough. Massive trade deficits & little help on the very weak border must change, NOW!"
Trump merchandise came from over seas... Now what does Donald think?
"We will follow two simple rules: BUY AMERICAN & HIRE AMERICAN!"
What do you think Putin has on Trump anyway?
It must be something juicy the way Trump sucks up to Putin...
McCain and Graham are two Senators proving the old adage about never getting between one or both and a TV camera. They are almost Democrats in their ability to say anything just to get airtime. As for Putin, a recent cartoon shows a picture of him and the bubble caption is, "If I really had something on Donald Trump do you think I would let him be President?"
And I believe you are getting too much of your news from the MSM. All this manufactured outrage is exactly that-- phony and irrational. The borders need locking down, and we need to quit disadvantaging ourselves on foreign trade.
They seem pretty smack dab in the center of the Republicans.
GovTrack McCain
GovTrack Graham
Private citizen Trump was of little use to Putin, President Trump can drop the sanctions, free up Putin's ill gotten fortune, and let Putin take over other countries. Of course he supported his pawn becoming POTUS.
Actually I was reading Trump's idiotic tweets. Unless you think that the Mexicans should be protecting our border for some strange reason...
Maybe the Mexicans shouldn't be protecting our border, but they shouldn't get so outraged if we protect our southern border as well as they protect theirs. And maybe you have forgotten the Mexican government "comics" telling its citizens how to cross our border for fun and profit. Trump is right, that stopping the drug cartels is in BOTH our interests.
McCain and Graham are prima donas regardless of their votes.
If a candidate in Mexico had said this about America and Americans we would justifiably upset... Then if they said we had to pay for a wall to protect their country...
"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.
It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably— probably— from the Middle East. But we don’t know. Because we have no protection and we have no competence, we don’t know what’s happening. And it’s got to stop and it’s got to stop fast."
You are complaining about taking everything literally, while complaining about those who take the Gospel as Gospel. If you look at this the way Trump voters do, you recognize that too many criminals and "crime" comes across our border, potential terrorists come across our border, and we are not making enough effort to stop it. Aside from the words, what is wrong with the concept, here?
The idea that Trump blamed the Mexican government and doubled down on that stupidity by promising that they would pay for OUR wall.
Now he is trapped in a pointless argument where his ego takes center stage instead of logic. And it is threatening to increase the cost of our goods and reduce our exports...
Sounds like a great start to the negotiation. And I don't think the word "tariff" means the same thing to Trump as it does to you. There are obvious ways for Mexico to "pay for the wall" that do not even require Mexico's agreement. My guess is that eventually we will have a win-win here. As far as I'm concerned, the only "ego-driven" thing about Trump is that he wants to have a successful run as President and accomplish what he told everyone he would. It's a Maslow thing.
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