Tuesday, January 31, 2017

How Safe is Safe Enough

It is odd that Trump incorrectly uses Obama as justification for his action.  The FactChecker analysis does a good job of explaining this.
MP Trump Order vs Trump's
FactChecker Trump's Faulty Comparison

The point is that valid concerns were found and addressed during Obama's time in office.  Since then no issues have happened, then Trump comes in and slams in a half baked executive order with little preparation.  This causes chaos and disrupts the lives of hundreds / thousands of innocent people around the world.

And worse yet, he does not even include the countries where our previous terrorists have come from...  Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc... Thoughts?

CNN White House Tries to Fix Order
CNN Ban Increases Chance of Attack
CNN ISIS Likes the Ban
CNN 41 Law Suits and Counting
FoxNews Media Chaos
FoxNews Sessions and Yates
MJ Travel Ban: How Many Impacted
MJ Students Trapped
All Sides News

35 comments:

John said...

One more note. Please remember that our country is full of crazy automatic weapon toting people who kill folks all the time... Unfortunately it is not like we would notice one or two more.

Anonymous said...

Obama has legitimacy and moral authority two things Trump lacks. And Trump is a bully, and bullies rarely analyze the logic further than the next punch in the nose. One thing Donald failed to figure out is that part of the deal with past deals not getting involved in politics is that past presidents aren't dragged into politics by the current president.

--Hiram

John said...

Well, my guess is that Obama is going to be an activist retiree. So this should be interesting.

Anonymous said...

I would like to think so, but I think President Obama will be very sparing in his criticism. He has finished his work, it's up to us to carry on.

--Hiram

John said...

One week in and he is already arm chair quarterbacking...

Anonymous said...

I have a sense that Trump invited that when he compared his policies to Obama's. The result was a very carefully worded and non confrontational defense from the president. Trump is not a man who learns lessons, but if he were he would take from this the message that he has got to stand up for himself.

We are in a time of national crisis, and the result is that a lot of the old rules aren't going to apply in the same way. To quote my favorite TV show, "All that's needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing."

--Hiram

John said...

Agreed that Trump needs to stop using Obama as justification...

jerrye92002 said...

The only reason Trump uses Obama as justification is because of the mass hysteria of the Left at anything and everything Trump does. He is trying to call out hypocrisy, which of course it is, but of course the Left can never be hypocrites.

Anonymous said...

The only reason Trump uses Obama as justification is because of the mass hysteria of the Left at anything and everything Trump does.

I don't know that the reason he does it matters much. Given that Trump is a liar, it's really hard to know why he does things. The fact is, he does them.

--Hiram

John said...

So if the previous administration builds a wall that is 20 feet tall... Does that in anyway justify the new administration increasing the height to 60 feet tall with no warning... I don't think so.

My point is that Obama etal found a specific problem and implemented a working fix.

Then Trump etal went much further even though there was no credible proof of threat that the existing process was not handling. Though it did play well with his core supporters.

John said...

And of course being for a 20 foot wall and against a 60 foot wall does not make one a hypocrite... It just makes one rational.

jerrye92002 said...

"And of course being for a 20 foot wall and against a 60 foot wall does not make one a hypocrite... It just makes one rational."

But of course claiming that the 20 foot wall was built (not true) and suggesting the new guy wants to build it 60 feet (not true) is not a particularly rational argument, either.

John said...

Of course the 20 foot wall was in place and proven, ZERO failures since the fixes.

John said...

Now if we could just put that same 20 foot wall between citizens and their obtaining semiautomatic weapons...

jerrye92002 said...

So why do we still have illegal immigrants pouring across the border?

John said...

I am talking about the travel ban order....

What does that to do with illegal border crossers?

John said...

I was just using a 20 foot wall to explain all of the vetting that refugees need to go through currently.

The idea that we "needed a pause" to review / fix the current processes was just silly. Again there are ZERO examples of the current process failing... So Trump just disrupted the lives of many college students, business people, refugees, etc to score political points.

I am guessing God will have special place in hell warmed up for him... I mean these poor refugees have lost their homes, been terrorized, had family killed, and then Trump pulls the rug out from under them... Just try to put yourselves in their shoes. (if you are capable of that real empathy)

jerrye92002 said...

"Again there are ZERO examples of the current process failing..." Oh, really? What do you call the recently convicted "Minnesota Men"? And just because it has not happened YET does not mean it has been completely prevented. Or maybe it has been quietly thwarted and not announced publicly?

And these poor refugees were NOT "terrorized...etc." by Trump. How about we focus on stopping the bad guys from terrorizing these people in the first place, and preventing them from carrying out their evil and publicly stated plan to "infiltrate the refugees"? 90 days to figure it out, after 8 years of dalliance, isn't a lot to ask. Meanwhile, all those already vetted are coming in pretty much unhindered.

jerrye92002 said...

Compassion is not a suicide pact.

John said...

Some young Americans become radicalized, that has happened to Americans of different races and backgrounds... Not to mention all of our domestic mass murderers...

These mothers, children and some husbands have spent years getting approval to come here... Just to get the rug pulled out from under them for some political points.

"Suicide Pact"... So silly and heartless... As I said, imagine it was your daughter and grand daughters... The little girls who have been terrorized, moved, homeless, etc for years and they are so excited to come to America....

Then sorry little girl... We Americans are a bunch of selfish scaredy cats, you need to stay trapped where you are... So much for Good Samaritans...

Story 1
Story 2

jerrye92002 said...

For compassion, I suggest that we should never have allowed them to become "terrorized for years" in the first place, or at minimum established "safe zones" where they could maintain their connections and culture and survive. It isn't very compassionate to step in and say that if you want safety, you have to uproot everything you know and fly 8000 miles to a place you've never even imagined. And when the "enemy" tells you that they will use your compassion to kill you, then the mind has to trump the heart to some degree. Remember, these folks have "waited years" and now will have to wait a few more months before leaving everything they have ever known. Boo-hoo.

John said...

Yep... Empathy score = 0... :-)

Please remember that it was us who helped to destabilize the Middle East in the first place by taking out Saddam... And I don't think keeping them safe in "refugee camps / areas" quite counts as truly helping them have a normal life.

John said...

Please remember that if there was ANY history of terrorists getting through the current process, I would support the pause... But there is ZERO evidence of an issue.

jerrye92002 said...

Just like there is no evidence of voter fraud? If the possibility exists, it should be reduced as much as possible.

jerrye92002 said...

"...us who helped to destabilize the Middle East in the first place by taking out Saddam..."

Um, wasn't it Saddam that started by gassing his own citizens, among other atrocities, and then invading Kuwait? The only thing we did-- strike that, OBAMA did-- was to pull out before Iraq was stable under new government.

Bringing refugees here is a sign that we have failed to bring peace to the place they have always lived and want to continue living; it is treating the symptom not the disease.

John said...

We could have maintained the "No Fly Zones" indefinitely, for better or worse. We chose to remove Saddam and the rest is history.

So Trump should sell all of his holdings and release his tax returns because there is a significant likelihood that there are skeletons in that closet and that he will work towards increasing his own wealth at the expense of the US citizens?

I mean look at what the self serving guy did today.
CNN Trump at Prayer Breakfast
CNN Arnold's Response

John said...

I mean he is the show's producer and trying to drive publicity... Simply amazing...

jerrye92002 said...

Why are you looking for problems? Saddam invaded Kuwait while the No-fly zones were in place, and he frequently challenged them with his air force. A coalition of nations pushed him out of his illegal occupation of Kuwait.

And Trump has kept only the producer credit on the show; he is not involved otherwise and certainly not profiting from it. And he made a joke. Too bad the left is devoid of any sense of humor.

And we are off-topic again, BTW. The subject was safety of the public-- government's number one job. It was not being done well enough and Trump is trying to fix it. Where's the problem?

John said...

"It was not being done well enough"... Please provide some ounce of proof to back up that statement...

A refugee who committed a terrorist attack would be best, since that is where the Conservatives say the problem exists.


As for Iraq No Fly Zones, I think you should do some research.

Iraq Invasion of Kuwait

John said...

This also offers some good detail.

Saddam

John said...

Now here is a good description of how the Trump folks twist facts.

And how the Obama folks found a problem with the screening process and fixed it...

CNN Bowling Green Errors

jerrye92002 said...

"Please provide some ounce of proof to back up that statement..."

There you go again. How about you prove that it WAS being done well enough? Just like the voter fraud case, how do we know there are not terrorists (trying to enter) in our midst until we have a way of determining who they are or at least preventing them from their nefarious pursuits? If there is no problem, then enhanced vetting will not find any, while all of the legitimate immigrants/refugees go about their business. What good purpose is served by willful blindness?

John said...

60000 to 100000 Visas revoked... God Lord what a waste of time and money...

US Wrestling Team Denied Iran Visas

John said...

I agree... Let's force Trump to come clean and sell his businesses...

You are sounding like a Liberal... We need more regulations and checks and burdens because you can not prove that someone is not polluting, being fraudulent, etc.

As I say often, there is a reason both the Dems and GOP are under the line on the Nolan diagram... They are regulation and government control obsessed. Just about different things.

The GOP:
- someone may sneak by, let's pass a law and regulate
- a pregnant woman may choose wrong, let's pass a law and regulate
- someone may kiss the wrong person, let's pass a law and regulate

It is very sad...

jerrye92002 said...

Some very nice false choices, there.