From Government Shutdown Opinion
"President Trump has been clear on his goal for dealing with immigration. Along with a DACA fix, he wants increased security at the border, an end to chain migration, and an end to the visa lottery program."After watching the morning shows, what amazes me most is that Trump, the supposedly superb negotiator, seems adamant that the DEMs should capitulate and give him every thing has requested.
Negotiate: "Bargaining (give and take) process between two or more parties (each with its own aims, needs, and viewpoints) seeking to discover a common ground and reach an agreement to settle a matter of mutual concern or resolve a conflict. "
Have I missed the part where Trump has been willing to give anything to help resolve this government shutdown? Instead he sits there tweeting names and insisting that the Senate should invoke the Nuclear Option. Which would really screw him next year if / when the DEMs take the Senate back.
At least his staged photos spread some joy. :-)
21 comments:
The president is a difficult negotiator. That's his style. It has worked for him. But it's not a style that gets deals on time.
The reporting has been that Trump has reached agreements with Democratic negotiators only to pull back. Difficult negotiators do that. And as everyone knows, the strategy for dealing with difficult negotiators is just to wait them out. I am sure even Trump has talked about that in his books.
--Hiram
Just a reminder. Donald Trump, he assures us, is a brilliant negotiator, one who has won every negotiation he has ever entered into. If this is true, why negotiate with him? Isn't a decision to negotiate with Donald, a decision to lose? For you logic fans out there, isn't the way to win with a negotiator who always wins to not negotiate?
--Hiram
"Trump, the supposedly superb negotiator, seems adamant that the DEMs should capitulate and give him every thing has requested."
Which, it should be pointed out, they more or less have.
Blame also needs to be assigned to McConnell, who refuses to let the Graham-Durbin compromise come up for a vote even though it likely could get 60 votes.
Sean,
I don't think so...
1. DACA fix
2. Increased security at the border
3. End to chain migration
4. End to the visa lottery program
Not sure what was truly offered on #2
Little was offered on #3 and #4
CNN Deal History / Update
"White House budget director Mick Mulvaney said in an interview on CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday morning that Schumer had not exactly offered the White House what they wanted on the wall, arguing Democrats had offered "to authorize" the wall, but not to appropriate funds for it."
More info on Proposed Compromise
"If passed, the bill would appropriate $2.705 billion in border security improvements, eliminate the visa lottery, make permanent the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program -- offering a pathway to citizenship to those who qualify -- and limit "chain migration," or family-based migration, of the individuals eligible for the program."
It seems to fund little, and do nothing about "chain migration" beyond the DACA folks.
On #2, Democrats agreed to the $1.6B in border security enhancements included in the House budget for this fiscal year.
On #3, excluding DACA recipients from chain migration is a major offer -- this will prevent the parents and family members of DACA recipients from ever achieving legal status.
On #4, a major chunk of the visa lottery numbers are reassigned to the DACA recipients.
How much should Democrats be forced to give in order to get Trump to do something he says he wants to do (fix DACA)?
At this point, based on the broken promises from Trump and McConnell, Democrats would be justified in walking away from the table.
That is why it is called a negotiation. And he is not trying to fix DACA. He wants to fix the immigration system and border security. And the DACA folks are his leverage. Now if the DACA folks are so important to the DEMs, why are they even fighting this?
#2: $1.6 Billion isn't even a down payment on a $20 Billion goal
#3: Of course they can achieve a legal status. They get in line with the rest of people seeking US citizenship. So you really think giving pardons to dreamers should give their families a free pass?
#4: So the lottery numbers will grow again after the DACA folks are processed?
Why are DEMs fighting the Australian Like System so hard?
Or Canadas?
"And the DACA folks are his leverage."
There it is. Swampy politics at its worst.
"#2: $1.6 Billion isn't even a down payment on a $20 Billion goal"
It's what the White House requested as a supplemental appropriation in 2017.
"So you really think giving pardons to dreamers should give their families a free pass?"
It's what the law would dictate without changes. This is actually a significant give up to many, many Democrats -- many DACA recipients were expecting a path of citizenship to allow them to help their families move towards legal status, too. And
"So the lottery numbers will grow again after the DACA folks are processed?"
No. Graham-Durbin ends the lottery as we know it, instead allocating visas to under-represented countries on a merit-based basis. Some of those visas would also be used to give legal status to some currently here under other TPS programs (like the El Salvador folks previously discussed).
So, what's your position, John? In your original post, you argued Trump hadn't given enough. Now, you're arguing that Dems haven't given enough.
Trump knows that, unless the Dems give him the very sensible and popular things he seeks on immigration, that DACA expires and they ALL go home. It's a good negotiating position.
"DACA expires and they ALL go home. It's a good negotiating position."
80+% of Americans support keeping DACA folks in the country. It's really rather amazing how he keeps finding himself backing these provisions that have tinier and tinier slivers of support.
Sean, I think both sides are being difficult.
Sean, I'm getting to the point where opinion polls are anathema to running the country intelligently. how many times have we seen these opinion surveys or petition drives would simply prove the abundant ignorance in our electorate? A recent one ask people whether they supported or opposed certain specifics of the "Bernie Sanders tax plan," and it was supported by wide margin. When told it was actually the Trump tax plan, most either change their answers or refuse to believe obviously they did not have enough information to have a valid opinion in the first place. Sane governance should not be guided by the nattering of fools.
For example, ask people if they want to keep youthful drug gangs like MS-13 in the country. I'll bet the answer changes.
Sean,
Now that I am back to a real keyboard...
#1 I see nothing swampy about using illegal individuals as leverage to convince irrational people to do a rational thing. Too many liberals seem to not care if immigrants follow the legal process or not. Our united goal is ZERO unauthorized people living in the USA. And ZERO people crossing our border illegally.
It is kind of like plant safety... You don't set a goal of only one person getting killed each month. And you don't set the goal of <250,000 unauthorized people with NO background check to cross each year. We have the technology and money to attain that goal.
#1 and #3 Do you really mean to say that the Liberals are trying to use these kids to get pardons for their Parents? I am thinking the DEMs are using those kids as badly as the GOP is.
#2 Well it is 2018, maybe 1.6 Billion is not enough now. Don't know? We know he wants the whole wall, not just a a few more miles. :-)
As for my position. I think we should lock down the border, adopt Australia like policies, and then give a one time pardon and path to citizenship for every "illegal" law abiding responsible person living in this country.
Sean,
This one says 70% support giving Dreamers a path to citizenship.
Of course the 30% who don't are likely Trump True Believers like Jerry. You know those people who Trump loves to present to because they cheer for him. :-)
It is good to see that most voters are rational and understand that Trump mostly caused the shutdown.
Jerry,
Where do you get stuff like this MS13 junk?
Individuals who meet the following criteria can apply for deferred action for childhood arrivals:
are under 31 years of age as of June 15, 2012; came to the U.S. while under the age of 16;
have continuously resided in the U.S. from June 15, 2007 to the present. (For purposes of calculating this five year period, brief and innocent absences from the United States for humanitarian reasons will not be included);
entered the U.S. without inspection or fell out of lawful visa status before June 15, 2012;
were physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making the request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS;
are currently in school, have graduated from high school, have obtained a GED, or have been honorably discharged from the Coast Guard or armed forces; have not been convicted of a felony offense, a significant misdemeanor, or more than three misdemeanors of any kind; and do not pose a threat to national security or public safety.
Applicants will have to provide documentary evidence of the above criteria. In addition, every applicant must complete and pass a biographic and biometric background check.
I keep wishing we could ship Americans who do not meet these basic requirements to a third world country for a year... Maybe they would change their belief system...
Those are good criteria, but the legislation proposed does not appear to match the stated reason of keeping "young kids, brought by their parents, living in "the only country they've ever known." Notice it applies to kids up to 16 years, allows them to have come alone and, most importantly, offers no real staff, funding or procedure for those "checks." It's just an amnesty pig with a lot of lipstick.
And let me raise an interesting question. Assuming the we even WOULD consider a true "Dreamer" amnesty, where you came here illegally with your parents, before you were 5, and have been a model "citizen" since. We're going to give you this work permit/shot at citizenship/whatever when you turn 18. When you apply, do we deport your parents immediately? If you are not 18 yet, do we deport your parents and leave you here?
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