Monday, March 26, 2018

The Left Keeps Pulling on the Boat

Since no one wants to think of Trump with his pants down getting swatted with a magazine... Let's move on. At G2A How to Unify Americans, Jerry and I exchange some comments that deserve the light of day.
"You are correct about the wide divide, but two things: 1) Who moved? and 2) When did we decide that the federal government was the first resort for solving all our problems? " Jerry

"Thinking of my boat on a rope... I think the Liberals kept pulling Left until the rope grew tight... And since the rope was slightly stretched, the Conservatives are trying to pull it back to the right.

So I am not sure either side really changed. Unfortunately now both tribes just keep living in their echo chamber worlds that vilify the other tribe while praising their own tribes genius." G2A

"I think your own analogy makes my point. The Left kept pulling to the left and are now FAR outside the mainstream. The Right would have preferred to keep going "straight." The Left moved, making the gap larger, and continues to strain against the rope.

Actually, unification is simple. The Left simply has to agree with us, and quit pulling on the rope. " Jerry

Now one has to remember that Jerry's idea of "main stream" occurred back in about 1950. Where as I think we should try to limit Total Government spending to ~33% of GDP. However I do agree that it is the Far Left who inexorably strives to pull us out to sea.  Thoughts?

Source: USGovernmentSpending


Laurie said...

The right shifted farther right about 10 years ago. The left has shifted farther left more recently. The current wide partisan divide is due to both parties shifting.

Partisan divides over political values widen

I don't think this link talks about total govt spending as a way to measure which party is / has become more extreme. I don't think most people focus on that issue when considering party differences.

Sean said...

Are you watching what your so-called conservatives are doing? They're undoing the spending discipline of the Obama Administration.

At what point are you going to reckon with reality, not the rhetoric?

John said...

They just discuss the Total Government Spend as a Percent of GDP in different terms... Excellent source by the way, I need to steal the image on page 12. It matches my bi-modal sketch nearly perfectly.

"The public has become more supportive of government aid to the needy in recent years, and there has been uptick in the share saying they prefer a bigger government with more services over a smaller government with fewer services.

For the most part, Democrats are driving the recent shift in opinions about the social safety net in a more liberal direction. For instance, the share of Democrats who say the government should do more to help the needy, even if it means going deep into debt, has increased dramatically since 2011, returning to levels last seen in 2008. Republicans’ positions on these questions have changed little over the last several years, but reflect a long-term GOP shift in a conservative direction.

As has been the case for most of the past two decades, a majority of the public continues to view government as “almost always wasteful and inefficient.” Opinions remain divided on whether government regulation of business is necessary to protect the public interest."

John said...

Though I agree with you that the GOP is not very financially Conservative either, I do believe that they would have cut spending more if they had a stronger majority in the Senate. Do you agree or disagree?

John said...

This is an interesting discussion of the spending bill

"President Donald Trump lost — bigly — when Congress voted for a $1.3 trillion spending bill that repudiates many of his top policy goals and much of his rhetoric.

He didn't get the money he wanted for a wall on the U.S. border with Mexico or a provision cutting off federal funds for "sanctuary cities." Lawmakers not only ignored his fiscal 2018 budget's elimination of scores of federal programs, they increased spending for many of those on his target list. And Congress provided seed cash for a New York-New Jersey tunnel project that Trump tried to kill.

The list of ways in which Congress rejected Trump's priorities — save a massive buildup in defense spending — is nearly as long as the 2,232-page bill that policy wonks are still studying.

More stunning, perhaps, was the way Republicans and Democrats both teamed up to cross out items on Trump's wish list. Almost exactly three-fifths of each party's caucus in the House voted for the so-called omnibus spending bill Thursday, while in the Senate 39 Democrats, 25 Republicans and one independent — Sen. Angus King of Maine — voted for it early Friday morning.

Perhaps that helps explain why, after White House officials and congressional Republican leaders swore up and down this week that Trump would sign the bill, he tweeted Friday morning that he was "considering a VETO" of it."

jerrye92002 said...

Just a note from the chart. It is obvious that spending as % of GDP has more or less inexorably increased since the 50s-- moving us leftward like it or not. It has now reached the 33% John thinks optimal, whereas he claims that I like the 50s, where spending was 25% lower, at 25% of GDP. As usual, what are we getting for that vast increase in spending?

Sean said...

"I do believe that they would have cut spending more if they had a stronger majority in the Senate. Do you agree or disagree?"

There is nothing in their history that demonstrates a willingness to cut spending when they control Congress and the White House. They only push hard to cut spending when Democrats control the White House.

John said...

Pretty much all of the additional spending goes out to the old, the young, the disabled, the foolish/irresponsible, the unlucky and/or the bureaucrats who manage the entitlements...

So a lot of people are receiving a lot more now than they did then.

Sean, Source please. I often hear Liberals complaining about how the GOP is implementing draconian terrible cuts.

Sean said...

"Sean, Source please."

If you need me to "cite a source" that shows that Republicans haven't cut spending when they've been in charge but have been more aggressive about cutting spending when Democrats hold the White House, you've obviously been in a coma for the last 30 years.

John said...

My argument is that I don't think the GOP has been "in charge" for a very long time...

So it will be hard to find a source. Even now they had to raise spending to get the Democratic votes to get the spending bill passed.

Sean said...

If you think "compromise with the Democrats" is the reason there's $1.3T in new spending, you're not paying attention.

John said...

Oh please... Nearly 80% of the Dems voted for it and only 50% of the GOPers.

"The Senate 39 Democrats, 25 Republicans and one independent."

This was a bill written to get DEM votes.

Sean said...

You think Republican spending priorities aren't reflected in the bill? The single largest piece of the bill is increased military spending. There's 90 miles of border wall in the bill and increased funding for ICE, too.

John said...

However they were not able to implement any off setting reductions if they wanted it to pass. It is that negotiated bill we all say we want. And that our kids will have to pay for.

If they do this again in the Fall. I do hope Trump vetoes it.