Tuesday, March 6, 2018

Why White Progressives Fight School Choice

Why white progressives should stop crying over black parent choice and ‘segregated’ charters. By Lynnell Mickelsen

I love reading the pieces written by Lynnell... This is classic.
"Alas, there's no nice, noble or non-colonial way to tell parents of color to stay in schools that fail their children because, dammit, middle-class white people need jobs and middle-class white neighborhood schools on the other side of town need bigger budgets."
Other Related Pieces
MP Lynnell was Correct
MP Fix the White Liberals
MP Three Suggestions
MP Closes the Doors Again
MP Transformation
MP Stop Teacher Wars


Anonymous said...

Generally, we feel it's a waste of money. It's hard enough to pay for one school system. Why should I have to pay for two?


John said...

Please remember that we tax payers spend money to educate children...

We do not spend money to pay for a school system...

Though sometimes it seems the Public School Bureaucracy and Public Employees forget that at times.

If they can not ensure the kids learn, time for other systems.

John said...

From MP

My perspective is that Charters get significantly less funding per student than MPLS schools. Is that correct?

One of my readers works in a charter that caters to mostly Somali children for better or worse.
Banaadir Academy

I think it is probably unfortunate for the kids that they are surrounded by similar kids, however I can see how it is comforting to the Parents.

Now should folks like me insist we know better what their children need and force them to integrate? I don't think so... G2A

Anonymous said...

But how many times should we spend it?


John said...

Given the MPLS schools failure rate and spend per child... It seems they are getting more than their fair share.

Laurie said...

I just checked the demographics of the middle school in the district in which I live. It is 50% white. The reason I checked is the neighbors recently said they were thinking of sending their youngest kid to a different school. The reason is the district is going to discontinue honors classes and mix all the students together.

I think parents want to send their children to school with classes that can be well manged by the teachers. From what I have heard that is not the case at our local middle school. I think parents want to send their kids to school with well behaved students and don't care that much about the race of the students.

John said...

Agreed. I think most responsible parents want that for their children.

As I have noted many times before... My girls love their school and their very racially diverse group of friends....

They do not like the kids of any race who act all "ghetto", disrupt classes, make the bathrooms unsafe, etc...

And thankfully they made really good choices...

jerrye92002 said...

MP Transformation:

I understand how an MP article might disagree with you, but agree with ME?

jerrye92002 said...

Hiram, I have heard your argument before, about "paying for two school systems." I suggest to you that you don't pay for systems at all, but rather for educating individual children. That is why I keep saying a universal voucher that could be used at any school would greatly improve cost-effectiveness. I have even suggested that public school districts should be allowed to "sub contract" certain classes, within their existing facilities. Why pay an ineffective teacher when you can subcontract out for an effective one?

John said...

Please read the whole thing.. Lynnell is against vouchers.

jerrye92002 said...

Vouchers are not mentioned. But Lynnell is for fixing it by fixing the public schools and public charters. She is fine with offending the union, but doesn't want to take the quickest means of getting the schools fixed which is to free parents by giving them additional options. That is, by introducing true competition. I always ask why, if we KNOW how to fix the schools and we do, why we haven't done it sometime in the last 30 years or so. Seems that Lynnell agrees with that.

"But the argument that we must first end poverty (a task that will not end in our life-times) before we can design schools to work better for students is bullsh-t. And progressives should stop making it." Agrees with me, disagrees with you.

"But in the last five or six years, a handful of public charters in Minneapolis and St. Paul — Hiawatha, Higher Ground, Harvest Prep and others — have started to make great gains with the same demographic that is failing en masse in our traditional district schools."

"The focus on teacher quality is key because studies show that teachers are the biggest in-school factor in students’ academic success." In-school factors matter. "So if your kid gets two lousy teachers in a row, they can end up being two years behind their cousin who had the great teacher across the hall. Just by the luck of the draw."

John said...

"The issue of the freedom to send a child to the school of your choice is not the entire point here. The point really is how far the state should go in subsidizing that exercise of freedoms. According to the Supreme Court, I have the freedom to own a gun, but is anyone seriously suggesting the state should pay for me to get one?

The Minnesota Constitution says that "it is the duty of the legislature to establish a general and uniform system of public schools." The purpose of this schools is not to teach kids a trade, to create compliant employees for Job Creators, or to make sure every parent gets exactly what they want. No, the purpose is to ensure the "stability of a republican form of government" by making the people "intelligent." Schools are a common good. They are not an amenity or a parental fashion choice.

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting eliminating all parental choice in the matter of a child's education. The question is how the state fulfills its obligations to all citizens." RB

"Hey, the good news is that we seem to agree. .......on what the Minnesota Constitution says about education and that schools are a common good, not a fashion choice

I think the state needs to support all models of public education: district and charter.

I am against for-profit models. I think vouchers are problematic. I support collective bargaining rights.

So I think we actually agree on a lot of the basics." Lynnell

John said...

The power of AND... I think we can:

improve parenting


improve schools

at the same time

to the benefit of unlucky kids everywhere !!!

jerrye92002 said...

Who is this all-powerful and wonderful "we" that can do two impossible things before breakfast, while having NOT done them for going on 30 years?

John said...

That is definitely a problem... Neither Conservatives or Liberals want to do what needs doing...

jerrye92002 said...

"I am against for-profit models. I think vouchers are problematic." Most private/charter schools are non-profit, yet you seem to object to those as well. And if somebody can make a profit while educating x number of kids better, while taking fewer taxpayer dollars than the public school next door, what's the problem?

Now your citation seems to be more about solving poverty than about improving schools, and it is my contention that if you improve the schools enough, poverty will be decimated over the long run. I don't see this as a liberal vs conservative issue. I see it as a liberal vs common sense and reality issue.

I support collective bargaining, too, with two stipulations: union membership must be voluntary, and government union members give up their right to vote.

jerrye92002 said...

One other thing, regarding schools but far moreso re: poverty. I think your dichotomy between "conservatives and liberals" is too binary. There are a few "progressives" who think they can do unlimited amounts of "good" with Somebody Else's Money, and there are a few conservatives who are "social Darwinists." I believe the vast majority of Americans are the "compassionate conservatives" who want to help people in need, but want to help them get "back on their feet" as quickly as possible.

It has been repeatedly proven that a simple work requirement can reduce welfare rolls 20% immediately, and up to 80% over time. If you add in the added help for education, child care, family stability, etc. PLUS a "good" education for all the kids, we wouldn't eliminate, but we could minimize poverty.

I've always found it best to make doing "it" the right way easier than doing it the wrong way, rather than the "make them" or "mandate" or "must" or "forced to" in your prescription.

John said...

"I don't think Lynnell reads my blog... So you may want to leave this note on MP...

"Most private/charter schools are non-profit, yet you seem to object to those as well."

I personally have no problems with charters and privates. I just don't think any of them work miracles... " G2A

"And yet some of them do. Are you going to deny parents the right to seek them out, if they BELIEVE those schools are better for their kids? Check parent satisfaction surveys. Even where academics lag behind the publics, it is usually considerably higher. And the academics can be apples and oranges" Jerry

"Normal question. Source?" G2A

"Source? Your own: Lynell" Jerry

John said...

My errors... I forgot the word don't and misread your comment so fixed mine and reposted yours.

John said...

Though I understand that Parent satisfaction is important...

Is that really a measure of school success? Is that why tax payers fund public education?

I disagree totally with the concept of Banaadir Academy, the idea that it prevents the children of new immigrants from being forced to assimilate quickly into our culture likely makes the Parents very happy.

But is it good for the kids and/or America?

jerrye92002 said...

I'm not crazy about it, either, but is the objective to educate kids or indoctrinate them? There are concerns that Banaadir does both, but courts have ruled that, so long as the educational objectives are met, religious instruction does not prevent a school from receiving public funds. And we expect the schools to transmit "society's" common values,in which our current public schools seem to fail too often. Seems to me that parent satisfaction would be a very important consideration in evaluating that part of school "performance" and that academics would be equally important, and something parents could evaluate. Those are two reasons parents, given choices, will move their kids.