Alpha News Minnesota farmers shouldn’t blame Trump getting tough on China The trade war doesn’t help, but there’s a lot more going on
A FB friend posted this link.; I replied with the following.
This is probably a less biased and more thorough source. Market Watch Trump’s tariffs and bad weather take toll on U.S. farmers That author only seems to show up on right leaning media. I mean if Trump's Trade War was not hurting farmers... Why did we bail them out because of the "Trade War"? Farm Bailout Money
As is often the case, I got no answer. Thoughts?
Please remember that I am fine with Trump going after China, they are going to be a major challenge in the future. And they are developed enough now that they must play by the rules that everyone else does. The problem I have is that Trump alienated all of our Global Partners who could have helped apply pressure. (ie Withdrew from Trans Pacific Partnership, Placed Tariffs on all of our Allies, Repeatedly Insulted many of Our Allies, etc) For a "Deal Maker", he is incredibly inept and it costing American Consumers and Businesses a LOT of MONEY.
This is probably a less biased and more thorough source. Market Watch Trump’s tariffs and bad weather take toll on U.S. farmers That author only seems to show up on right leaning media. I mean if Trump's Trade War was not hurting farmers... Why did we bail them out because of the "Trade War"? Farm Bailout Money
As is often the case, I got no answer. Thoughts?
Please remember that I am fine with Trump going after China, they are going to be a major challenge in the future. And they are developed enough now that they must play by the rules that everyone else does. The problem I have is that Trump alienated all of our Global Partners who could have helped apply pressure. (ie Withdrew from Trans Pacific Partnership, Placed Tariffs on all of our Allies, Repeatedly Insulted many of Our Allies, etc) For a "Deal Maker", he is incredibly inept and it costing American Consumers and Businesses a LOT of MONEY.
34 comments:
One more thing to consider: China still wants/needs to buy the commodities, so the market opened up for Brazil to sell more of them to China, which means more land to grow them, which means more destruction of the Amazon rainforest ecosystem.
Moose
Moose,
I think you should read the first piece.
And remember that soybeans and corn are commodities. Once they are in the bin it is hard to tell which field they came from. Which begs the question, if the some more of the Brazilian crop is now going to China, where is it no longer going?
This NYT The Daily piece I heard on NPR was pretty complete.
Summary:
The tearing down of the forest is bad...
The fires are somewhat normal and seasonal.
Tariffs and the Rainforest
Brazil US China
On top of that, the Bolsinaro regime is using it as an excuse to drive indigenous peoples from their lands
Two things Republicans and Autocrats (redundant, I know) don't like: the environment and indigenous people.
Moose
I agree care should be taken, but we also need to keep this in perspective.
Amazon
2,500,000 sq miles
=== 1,600,000,000 acres
burning 2,500,000 acres
Maybe all the Urban Liberals should start buying massive tracts of land in America, and then start planting trees there...
That is pretty much what you want the Brazilians to do...
Planting trees does not restore a lost ecosystem. I don't even know what you're talking about.
Moose
Well then maybe all the concerned parties in the world should by all that Brazilian land from whoever owns it?
My point is that the Brazilians have a lot of excellent tillable land that would provide food and help their economy.
You want to control what they do with "their property"...
It would like me telling you what you should do with your money, assets, property, etc. Wouldn't that bother you?
As for the indigenous peoples... They lost whatever war long ago... They are now citizens of Brazil. Therefore the democratically elected leader should be free to make changes for the betterment of the Brazilian people... Right?
Sure...just wipe out entire cultures...that's a perfectly moral thing to do.
If you weren't a Nazi before, you sure sound like one now.
Moose
I'll put you down in the "Doesn't care about genocide" column. Bully for you.
Moose
No one is killing anyone, however you are correct that as the world fills up with people... People get closer together and they need to adjust.
Or do you think a small group of citizens should dictate the use of the democracies land?
You are starting to sound like a capitalist.... :-)
"No one is killing anyone..."
You are wrong.
Moose
Brazil Population Growth
1800: 3,000,000
1900: 14,000,000
2000: 193,000,000
2019: 210,000,000
Those darn Catholics
I just firmed up my trip plans... I leave next Wednesday night and get back the following Monday morning.
Hopefully I can learn more about it while there.
According to the UN:
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
Take a close look at (c).
Moose
Yes. Let's do just that...
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
So the people of Brazil decide via through popular vote that there is a better use for public lands on which a group of citizens are living.
Do you think there intent is to "Deliberately inflict on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"?
Or are they just trying to make more effective use of the common property?
If other people in Brazil are impoverished and can not find jobs, does it make sense to have a small group of the population hording a vast amount of the land?
Do you think the native Americans should have been able to stop the expansion of people into America because they wanted to be spread out and free?
For someone who does not think much of personal property rights, you sure want to give these indigenous people a lot of power.
"public lands" - incorrect
"Do you think there intent is to "Deliberately inflict on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"?"
If you've been paying attention, you would know that this is Bolsonaro's intent. He has not been unclear.
Moose
"Do you think the native Americans should have been able to stop the expansion of people into America because they wanted to be spread out and free?"
I think that 18th and 19th century attitudes about genocide were wrong and are irrelevant to today.
Moose
Well the reservations don't make up much of the land. Who do you think owns the rest?
Though he does seem to want to get his hands on their land also... :-(
Now I have to wonder... You fine with people from Central America flooding the USA... And yet you have a problem with Brazilians expanding within their country?
And you are fine with the Urban Liberal majority making laws to force the Rural Americans to comply with your view of advancement and enlightenment... And yet here you want to let the indigenous folks have their own laws, punishments, etc?
If some of those cultures stone gay guys... Is that okay then? When is "let the locals decide okay" and when is it wrong?
I am curious if the Native American would have been better of if we had forced them to assimilate rather than putting them on reservations?
They and we have certainly made a mess of their lives... Thanks heavens they at least have the casinos.
Is this culture of sexual abuse worth protecting?
Your racism is your concern.
Moose
I am indifferent to their race, I am concerned for the women and children in their society. Just the facts and data man... Or were you too scared to read the links?
Just as you are concerned about LGBTQ folks living in Rural America...
Another data point for you perusal.
"Is this culture of sexual abuse worth protecting?"
We destroyed their actual culture and way of life, forced them onto reservations and into Christian schools. Why are you NOW concerned that their society is broken?
Moose
Yes I am. Would you prefer to ignore the rape, addiction and abuse?
By the way, leaving be was never an option.
Unless you think they deserved to stop the immigrants from coming?
And my question was if they would have been better off assimilated?
You're trying to make a connection between our border today and our massacre of the people of the nations that already existed here when white people "discovered" the continent.
That ridiculous argument won't fly.
Maybe we all would have been better off if the white people tried to assimilate into the native cultures.
Moose
Maybe but the majority rules in a democracy, so when a new majority moves in they get to make the rules... Right? I think that is what you want?
Remember that I am the electoral college / states rights guy, and you want everyone to assimilate with the majority urban folks.
I am guessing you would have found some of the tribal cultures to be less civilized than our modern ways.
Maybe, but they also generally had a better understanding of the natural world and didn’t simply destroy it for their own purposes, and many tribes respected those whose gender expression was atypical, seeing them as particularly gifted. That is, of course, until European Christians came along with their narrow views.
Much human knowledge was lost with the destruction of those civilizations. We’d do well to recognize that and keep it from happening to others.
Moose
I have no doubt that these societies had their good and bad aspects like ours does.
I am not sure "Much human knowledge was lost with the destruction of those civilizations" is accurate though...
As far as I understand the new immigrants killed many of the old immigrants (ie Native Americans weren't from here either) However a majority was simply moved to reservations where they could continue to practice their beliefs and pass down their knowledge. Short some of the animals and wide expanses of land...
And as for wise land usage, it worked when there were few people to feed and if you were willing to send the old and infirm out to die. Source 2
If it was not for agricultural, technical and medical advancement there would have been far fewer of us. Many more of the weak, elderly and young would have died... Would that have been better or worse?
So was it actually lost or was it just deemed not that wise?
Lost.
Moose
What type of knowledge do you think was lost?
Why do you think the tribes did not keep that knowledge?
Ironically, it sounds like most of the old immigrants died from unintended attacks. The new immigrants brought with them some nasty bacteria and viruses from the old world.
And since the old immigrants has evolved separate from the old world, their bodies were not prepared. Do you consider this as an 'evil action" of the new immigrants or just nature at work?
This a fascinating evaluation
‘Do you consider this as an 'evil action"’
Do you consider giving native Americans blankets containing the smallpox virus in order to spread the disease to them evil?
That’s what our government did.
Moose
Actually per the history links I provided, that was not a government action. It was the action of a couple of bad players. And though despicable, the blankets would have only have hurried the natural progression of the disease.
And from my reading there were attacks from both sides on the other. Apparently the old immigrants would sometimes kid nap white girls... Probably normal in their societies but a big no no in that of the new immigrants.
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