Tuesday, September 10, 2019

End of Democracy?

Politico: Paper Predicting End of Democracy
"Rosenberg, a professor at UC Irvine, was challenging a core assumption about America and the West. His theory? Democracy is devouring itself—his phrase — and it won’t last.  
As much as President Donald Trump’s liberal critics might want to lay America’s ills at his door, Rosenberg says the president is not the cause of democracy’s fall—even if Trump’s successful anti-immigrant populist campaign may have been a symptom of democracy’s decline.
We’re to blame, said Rosenberg. As in “we the people. ”Democracy is hard work. And as society’s “elites”—experts and public figures who help those around them navigate the heavy responsibilities that come with self-rule—have increasingly been sidelined, citizens have proved ill equipped cognitively and emotionally to run a well-functioning democracy.  
As a consequence, the center has collapsed and millions of frustrated and angst-filled voters have turned in desperation to right-wing populists. His prediction? “In well-established democracies like the United States, democratic governance will continue its inexorable decline and will eventually fail.”
Now isn't that a cheery prediction.  I am not sure if I agree that we will fail due to Right Wing Populists though.  I do agree that we will struggle as long as citizens demand more back from government than they are willing to pay into it

31 comments:

Anonymous said...

When a Donald Trump becomes president, that's serious indication that democracy is in trouble. The bright side is that the American people voted for Hillary Clinton.

--Hiram

John said...

Or maybe that the choice was between Clinton and Trump is a better measure.

RCP Trump Approval Results

The amusing news is that Trump does not like his poll numbers again. :-)

Anonymous said...

Nothing terribly wrong with Hillary. She was certainly fit for the job.

We didn't elect Donald Trump. That's important to remember, it's not something we should get over or want to get over. As a nation we have not yet sunk that low. That the person we voted for didn't become president while not necessarily something we should be proud of, should at least lessen our national shame.

--Hiram

jerrye92002 said...

"A republic, if you can keep it."

jerrye92002 said...

"A democracy can not survive once the people realize they can vote themselves benefits" --Alexis De Touqueville

John said...

Jerry,
Agreed. Though those benefits in this case are expenditures and tax cuts that we are putting on the credit card rather than paying today like responsible adults.

jerrye92002 said...

I don't think "though" is the right conjunction. Maybe "because" is more correct. You keep saying people voted for these things, though I don't think we ever did, directly. But if we did, it is proof ADT was right, and we are in the midst of it.

John said...

As the author wrote...

"We’re to blame, said Rosenberg. As in “we the people. ”Democracy is hard work. And as society’s “elites”—experts and public figures who help those around them navigate the heavy responsibilities that come with self-rule—have increasingly been sidelined, citizens have proved ill equipped cognitively and emotionally to run a well-functioning democracy.

As a consequence, the center has collapsed and millions of frustrated and angst-filled voters have turned in desperation to …"

One tribe wants to raise taxes and give people stuff with little or no expectations from them...

One tribe wants to cut taxes without resolving the spending issues...

And all of them "FEEL" that they are the GOOD Tribe and the other is the BAD Tribe... It is certainly a mess...

Anonymous said...


One tribe wants to raise taxes and give people stuff with little or no expectations from them...

I remember when Trump tried to appoint as Secretary of Labor a guy who made his fortune by depriving the people who worked for him health insurance.

--Hiram

John said...

Your point?

Anonymous said...

We expect stuff from people. We just don't provide adequate compensation.

==Hiram

Laurie said...

Here is a description of the man John is considering voting for a second time.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/donald-trump-not-well/597640/

It really makes me question your judgment, John.

John said...

Atlantic Trump Not Well

I am begging you DEMs to give me a good moderate option...

I am begging the GOP to give me a better option, which does not take much...

I have ~14 months to see what happens... :-)

John said...

Hiram,

"We just don't provide adequate compensation"...

How do you define adequate compensation?

I mean if people are applying for the position and accepting the job for the offered compensation. Isn't that adequate?

Or do you think people should pay more than necessary to hire an employee?

If a house cleaner wanted $100 to cleaner your house, would you insist on paying her $200?

Anonymous said...

How do you define adequate compensation?

Something that includes health insurance.

--Hiram

John said...

Why is health insurance so important to you?

I know a lot of people who pay their own health insurance premiums and are very happy.

Be they business owners, self employed, consultants, etc...

jerrye92002 said...

How about Medicare? It actually pays only about 1/3 of the normal charges doctors and hospitals would charge non-Medicare patients. That is NOT "adequate compensation," and yet Democrats want "Medicare for all"??

That might be democracy, but it's a lot closer to socialism.

jerrye92002 said...

Trump is the right guy at the right time, trying very hard to steer us out of the ditch, while others berate him and grab for the wheel.

John said...

Jerry,
More claims and no sources... And if the Doctors and Hospitals accept the deal, then it is adequate...

As we are discussing elsewhere, Trump's steering is driving us only deeper into the national debt swamp.

jerrye92002 said...

Just look at your Medicare statements. They list charges, then "what Medicare allows" and "what Medicare paid." Simple. And providers have no choice. They either accept the deal or lose all their Medicare patients-- maybe half or more. It's extortion and borderline slavery.

If that is your sole objection to Trump, then you have a problem to find someone reliably better on that and every other issue he is working. Have you heard ANY candidate say they will push for a balanced budget, let alone offer specifics?

Sean said...

If you're concerned about the national debt, your recourse is to vote for the Democrat. The only sustained periods of deficit reduction in recent history have taken place under Democratic administrations.

John said...

Jerry,
I am still a "youngster" and no where near receiving a Medicare statement.

However I do receive normal Insurance Statements and Provider Bills that show the same thing for "In Network" providers.

People paying CASH are probably the only ones paying there MSRP rates. The rest of us get a negotiated rate.

If you don't my concerns regarding Trump yet, you have not been paying attention.


Sean,
That will be part of my analysis.

Sean said...

If you want to talk about what's going to take down democracy, it ain't gonna be the debt. The original author had it right -- if it's going to happen, the unprecedented in recent history efforts by one party to shatter political norms and disenfranchise the other one is going to be the start of it. Just look at what has happened in North Carolina in the last year: a House election had to be tossed out because of Republican voter fraud, the Republican lame-duck Legislature (which only holds the majority because of gerrymandered map that has been found illegal by courts) voted to take power away from the incoming Democratic governor, and just yesterday voted to override a veto while Democrats attended a 9/11 memorial, breaking their promise to other lawmakers not to vote while that was happening.

jerrye92002 said...

Ah, but the difference between Medicare and private insurance is that it is voluntary on all three sides. People have a choice of insurance providers (or did, before Obamacare), providers have a choice to accept any given insurance or not, and insurers have a choice of what to pay providers according to the contract they have with the insured.

If we are talking about "end of Democracy" as being "end of freedom" then Medicare is a prime example of how we're going to Hades in wicker art.

John said...

You are very confused...

Most citizens get their insurance through their employer.
Which means the employer chooses the insurance.

And the insurance choose the "In Network" providers.

Of course we can go "Out of Network" or pay cash...

Much like every other citizen in the USA...

John said...

Medicare Doctor Options

That pretty much says that you are so wrong...

John said...

This has more interesting details

jerrye92002 said...

Hmm. Your source says "Thanks to plummeting reimbursement rates, ever-tightening rules, and cumbersome paperwork, many doctors are dropping Medicare like a bad habit."

How am I wrong? And don't tell me employer insurance denies me choice. I had several choices, but when Obamacare came along they all disappeared. I lost the freedom to choose.

John said...

Let's take the full summary...

The Bottom Line
Thanks to plummeting reimbursement rates, ever-tightening rules, and cumbersome paperwork, many doctors are dropping Medicare like a bad habit. If you recently enrolled in Medicare, only to find that your long-standing doctor doesn’t accept it, you have a number of options.

Also, just because you are eligible for Medicare doesn't mean you have to enroll in all four parts of it. If you have other health insurance—say, you're still working and can remain covered by your employer's group plan—it might be best to continue to use that.

John said...

I have the same or more choices than I did in 2007.

Not sure who you have been talking to.

John said...

From the other source.

"What Percentage of Doctors Accept Medicare

Over 93% of all doctors in America accept Medicare. Before we are on Medicare most of us are accustomed to having to use networks, deal with referrals, and making sure the specialist or facility we want to use is in the plan’s network.

Well, good news! When you go on Medicare you get a lot more freedom when it comes to choosing your doctor."