These stories are all very interesting:
- Conservatives think Trump should be allowed to call the media "Enemies of the State".
- Because they say and print things that he disagrees with.
- Most people disagree with Trump's view.
- Trump Strips Brennan's Security clearance because he does not like Brennan's comments and opinions
- The good news is that he certainly did not silence Brennan by pulling this Third World Dictator stunt.
- Of course when listening to Trump's statement I thought he was describing himself more than Brennan.
"Additionally, Mr. Brennan has recently leveraged his status as a former high-ranking official with access to highly sensitive information to make a series of unfounded and outrageous allegations – wild outbursts on the internet and television – about this Administration. Mr. Brennan’s lying and recent conduct, characterized by increasingly frenzied commentary, is wholly inconsistent with access to the Nation’s most closely held secrets and facilitates the very aim of our adversaries, which is to sow division and chaos. " Trump
Of course, the Trump True Believers will believe him. That is what they do. Thankfully most of will see this as petty revenge by a petty man who truly does seek to sow division and chaos through lies and incorrect statements. Thoughts?
40 comments:
People like to blather on about "freedom of speech" when it comes to folks like Alex Jones. Well, freedom of speech doesn't apply on Facebook or YouTube. It does apply, though, when government officials are taking actions that are designed to stifle dissent, which is clearly what the President is doing here.
But, hey, I'm sure John will be able to find a way to explain this -- along with the racism, and the shredding of norms and the lying and the dangerous trade policies and the nonsensical foreign policy on and on and on an on -- all away in November 2020.
It will all depend on who the other party chooses and what their platform is.
There are many things I dislike about Trump personally, however I fear a Left moving big government welfare ship more.
As for trade negotiations, I do not know how they will turn out or if his technique is good or bad... But apparently they are still talking.
We're 19 months into this administration and there are precisely zero new trade deals but lots of tariffs flying back and forth.
The much-ballyhooed South Korea agreement, for instance, hasn't been finalized because the Trump Administration has refused to exempt the Koreans from tariffs on autos even if they sign the deal.
For decades we have been transferring our intellectual property over seas , especially as American consumers kept giving foreign firms more money for R&D and the purchase of American and European firms.
I am happy to give them a bit more time if it means pressing American Consumers and Companies to Buy American more often. And to slow the technological advancement of foreign firms that are in countries not friendly to America...
Did you know that Saab, Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover are all owned by India or China companies now?
That is a lot of good IP that they got pretty cheap.
John, is it not possible, in your mind, to allow that people have minds of their own and can reach a different assessment of Trump's words and actions on an individual, case-by-case basis? Apparently not, or you would not use the words "True Believer" capitalized like that, as if they were real.
In this particular TNT-- Tempest iN a Teapot-- I hear the Right calling for MORE completely unneeded security clearances to be revoked, while the Left yammers on in the Outrage of the Day. Nobody is curtailing Brennan's speech in any way!
Jerry,
Until Trump True Believers start to honestly fact check Trump, that is how I will consider them. Whenever I give proof of black and white lies made by Trump, the True Believers avoid, compare, rationalize, etc instead of just saying. Yes he is a liar. It is like some kind of a cult mentality.
As for Trump taking away security clearance from a very capable spy who could continue to assist active operations occasionally as revenge for Brennan voicing views he disagrees with. I would expect nothing less from Trump.
NPR Why Professionals Keep Clearance
Here is a the Trump FALSE list from Politifact for your reference
And yet you are a Politifact True Believer? How is that different? Why is it wrong, in assessing the nature or importance of a purported lie, to "avoid, compare, rationalize"? Does one "little white lie" make everything one says untrue, henceforth and ever after? I frankly do not understand the obsession with making that assertion.
"I am happy to give them a bit more time"
It's fascinating how Barack Obama's statements got nit-picked to death to show how he wasn't living up to his objectives, but some are willing to make all sorts of excuses for Trump's lack of results.
Jerry,
Please pick any of Politifacts assessments that you disagree with and I will make a post of it and we can evaluate if Trump lied or if Politifact lied.
Now if you can say that "Trump lies often with good reason" that would be a start in facing reality... The reality being that one can pretty much never take Trump's statements as TRUE.
So considering the source comes into play, and requires us to be constantly reviewing what is true and what is said to manipulate.
Sean,
Obama was in for 8 years, Trump has been in for 1.5 years. I am not sure what Obama accomplished in his first 18 months, but here is a source.
Once again, you're missing the point. I'm judging Trump based on what he said he was going to do. Donald Trump said he was going to renegotiate NAFTA in his first 100 days. How did that turn out? Donald Trump said he was going to declare China a currency manipulator. Whoops!
People still talk all the time about things like "if you like your plan, you can keep it" -- which has just as much nuance and context behind it as the things that you're willing to excuse Trump for.
Sean,
Good point... However we know that Trump lies, exaggerates, etc often.
So I would prefer to judge him based on more normal criteria.
"So I would prefer to judge him based on more normal criteria."
OK, then. I would suggest that if a Democratic President pursued the Trump trade policy, you'd be flipping your lid. One need only search "free trade" on this blog's history to see your unvarnished support for it. But now you're talking about protectionism.
"Please pick any of Politifacts assessments that you disagree with and I will make a post of it and we can evaluate if Trump lied or if Politifact lied."
That would be a particularly pointless exercise, would it not? You are already a Politifact True Believer, and I prefer to evaluate each statement based on what I believe is factual but also by context, intent, and importance. Take for example the statement "We will Make America Great Again." That is obviously a lie depending on whether you believe America was never great (like Cuomo), or that it never stopped being great, or it can never be great, or that it was great and lost it but that Trump cannot restore its greatness. All valid viewpoints, so which is the fact that makes Trump a liar? And since his intent is to convey something intangible, in a political context, with the intent to inspire, and details don't matter, WHY ever would you be sitting back and grumbling about it? Obviously you are determined to make him out a liar so you can dismiss all future statements without evaluation. That's prejudice and it makes no sense to me.
Sean, I think you are on to something. Rather than just say "Trump lies," let us examine particular policy matters and find our disagreements with Trump's approach there. If Trump erred in suggesting it could be done in 100 days, that may be less relevant than whether it gets done at all, yes?
progress
Sean,
You are absolutely correct that I support free trade.
I also support "pro-American Worker / Union" citizens buying American as you know.
Unfortunately neither of my dreams have come true yet... So I can support a President of either party playing trade hardball if it results in other countries lowering their barriers further or providing better intellectual property protection.
And I certainly do get a perverse satisfaction from American consumers whining about having to pay more for foreign goods. Especially the Liberal hypocrites who say they support the American workers while sending their money over seas. :-)
Trump's exiting TPP and going after the Europeans before fixing China was his stupidest actions. But he has never been about coalition building and leveraging allies. Maybe that is a business mentality...
Jerry,
Please feel free to continue to be a Trump True Believer.
I will continue to evaluate his comments via the many sources of data we have at our finger tips.
Now if Trump provided sources for his more outrageous claims, it sure would make our job easier.
Jerry,
Since you decline to pick one, how about this one...
"U.S. Steel just announced that they are building six new steel mills," Trump said July 31 in Tampa. "And that number is soon going to be lifted, but I'm not allowed to say that, so I won't."
And of course US Steel denies anything of the kind...
"That would be huge news, given the company only has four steelmaking facilities in the United States. But there’s no evidence on their website that any new mills are on the horizon.
Meghan Cox, a spokeswoman for U.S. Steel, told us that Trump wasn’t privy to any exclusive information.
"All of our operational changes have been publicly announced and all information shared with the federal government has been properly disclosed and made available on our website," Cox said."
And of course...
"(The White House did not respond to our request for comment.)"
So given your criteria...
"I prefer to evaluate each statement based on what I believe is factual but also by context, intent, and importance."
Is Trump blatantly lying for no good reason or something else?
I don't think Trump is blatantly lying, by the standard definition. I do not believe ANYBODY lies for "no good reason." I assume there WAS a reason, and that rather than seek it out, some people (ahem) choose to simply call it a lie. But suppose, for instance, that what he said was "US steel COMPANIES are going to build...." That might be premature and/or an exaggeration, but not a lie in the strict sense. And it could also be political posturing, to support the idea that his tariffs are bringing jobs back, with the intent to suggest to American steel companies what they should do.
Intent, context, importance, not just the rush to brand everything a lie.
John, the crazy thing about this "buy American" idea of yours is that it is US government policy creating the problem. Our over-regulated, over-taxed businesses cannot compete on price and quality, so consumers choose otherwise. Reduce government regulation and taxes and impose reasonable tariffs as a stop-gap, and guess what, you get what you want-- more American jobs and goods.
Let's try this again...
"U.S. Steel just announced that they are building six new steel mills," Trump said July 31 in Tampa. "And that number is soon going to be lifted, but I'm not allowed to say that, so I won't."
And of course US Steel denies anything of the kind..."
Lie defined...
1. to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2 : to create a false or misleading impression
Regulations and taxes may be part of the problem, however the biggest issue is that our much higher standard of living is expensive. We have big houses, nice cars, clean water, clean air, etc. If you want to compete head to head with a third world country, maybe you should move there for awhile.
Now as for Trump's lying...
He really has no reason to stop lying, he is only interested in the support of his base and most of them are Trump True Believers like yourself who will ignore the facts and rationalize that he isn't really lying.
Which of course amuses and confuses me to no end... If any Democrat said what Trump says you would be all over them, but not with Trump...
I am assuming this is why cult leaders have so much power over their flock.
Ah, I see the problem. You are one of those Biblical literalists, except you believe everything Trump says is a lie, rather than Gospel. If you were to interpret the Bible, or Trump, as a contextualist, considering all of the things surrounding a particular statement or verse, you could easily come away with some doubt, and indeed perhaps not even care about the literal truth of the statement, the "metaphor" being more important.
And I don't have to worry about a Democrat saying what Trump says, not when I have Democrats saying things like "if everybody had Medicare, we could cut down on funeral costs."
Oh, and apparently Trump True Believers, as you insultingly phrase it, are now 50% of the population.
First... "you believe everything Trump says is a lie"
No, sometimes Trump tells the truth... Sometimes he lies blatantly.
He said USS was building 6 new mills, they are not... Definitely a lie.
Second, it does not take a Democrat to fact check Trump. Whenever he says something that makes no sense, take a minute to check.
Thirdly, RCP Trump Approval Ratings,
Finally, please remember that Trump True Believers are only a subset of people who approve of Trump's policies. Or at least I hope so... I hope many of them are like me and realize he tweets and lies too often.
One more note, even on the out lying Rasmussen Poll his average is below 50 percent.
And by the way he is back to 48% even there.
Is it a lie, or a misquote? IF he said "US Steel (as in the industry, not the corporation), is it still wrong? If it is not a current fact but a prediction, it is likely less wrong than that. And since the imposition of steel tariffs, is it not, just in general terms, what we expect to happen? What possible good comes from pronouncing this statement a lie?
Oh, dear, I guess you are right, that only slightly less than half the US population are complete idiots and you alone hold Truth in your pocket.
WH Transcript
"Yesterday, I was at Granite City Steel in Illinois. It was an incredible sight. We had an audience of steel workers, some of the roughest, toughest people you’ve ever seen. And half of them had tears coming down their face. I don’t know if these people ever cried before in their life, to be honest. Half of them had tears coming down because we opened a tremendous United States Steel plant. They’re opening up seven other plants. And the steel industry is back. They’re open for business. And we need the steel industry. And the tariffs did it."
Jerry,
If Obama had made a habit of lying during his speeches, would you have been so tolerant... I don't think so since you are still bringing up any of his errors.
You must have missed my point.
For the most part I am in the 48%, but even I can tell when he is lying. It is pretty easy... Most of the facts are readily available for anyone who wants to look.
I asked someone why Trump True Believers can not accept that Trump Lies often. His view was that Trump says what they want to be true, therefore they do everything they can to believe it.
I mean just think how much they personally and emotionally have invested in Trump.
Good Christians sold out their faith to elect a womanizing man of poor morals and values, in the name of achieving certain political goals. People like my mother rationalized that those sins were in the past and that he had changed.
Maybe accepting that he is still the same old lying, cheating, etc individual is just too much for them to bear.
Personally I accepted that I voted for the devil because the other candidate was worse. I am okay with this and will keep evaluating what the devil says and does... I am sure not going to just drink the koolaid like some blind cult follower.
" I am sure not going to just drink the koolaid like some blind cult follower."
And yet 48% of The People, minus you, are "blind cult followers"? That's a bit arrogant, don't you think? Look, a lot of us may be rationalizing or overlooking some personal failings to get what are some great political outcomes, and some of us are no doubt just tickled pink when Trump fires back at critics and the media, so why queer the deal for us? Let us have the win.
Oh, and has it ever occurred to you that "Trump says what [HE] wants to be true"? So that we believing it makes it happen? Consumer and business confidence means a LOT.
No, I think many of the 48% are like me. They disapprove of Trump's personal behavior and lies while being somewhat okay with his policy.
We accept that we voted for a womanizing egotistical liar and that is what we expect from him. Therefore we know better than to trust what he says.
It is kind of like doing business with a used car salesman...
You can be satisfied with the salesman while not trusting him further than you can throw him. You just have to check what he says.
Well, Pew research seems to agree with you, that maybe 20% of "us" are in that "love him but" category.
Or better yet, take that used car to your trusted mechanic, look at the Blue Book, and ignore what the salesman says about it.
That is kind of what I do with Trump’s whoppers.
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