74M Race-Blind or Discriminatory? NYC’s Plan to Diversify Elite High Schools Becomes Latest Fodder for Advocates Seeking Supreme Court Rollback on Affirmative Action
NPR Freshman Class For NYC's Top Public High School Includes 7 Black Students Out Of 895
I heard about this on "The Daily" the other day. It seems aligned with our recent discussions.
Are the Asian families and students really harder working, more education focused, etc than the White and Black students of NY? Or is this just one of those unearned racial stereotypes that the Left complains about?
Should these schools allow less capable kids in to fulfill a racial quota of some sort? Thoughts?
NPR Freshman Class For NYC's Top Public High School Includes 7 Black Students Out Of 895
I heard about this on "The Daily" the other day. It seems aligned with our recent discussions.
Are the Asian families and students really harder working, more education focused, etc than the White and Black students of NY? Or is this just one of those unearned racial stereotypes that the Left complains about?
Should these schools allow less capable kids in to fulfill a racial quota of some sort? Thoughts?
24 comments:
"Should these schools allow less capable kids in to fulfill a racial quota of some sort? "
The idea that black kids are "less capable" is again, more than a bit racist. Studies have shown that ideas like this -- often called the "mismatch hypothesis", aren't supported by data.
Vox: Why Justice Scalia thinks affirmative action hurts black students, and why he’s wrong
I think the question is should the school use affirmative action to accept more black students who may have lower test scores than some of the Asian students who apply. My answer is yes, test scores should not be the only criteria. Once again I surveyed my small family on this question. My husband is mostly opposed to affirmative action and my mother is on the fence. She is for affirmative action if those who benefit from it are capable enough to be successful in these selective schools. I told her that I thought the pool of capable black students in new york city is larger than 7 students. I think all students would benefit from a more diverse student body.
Currently the test result is the ONLY factor that determines enrollment.
The Asian kids do better on the test...
Yes... Based on the criteria, the Black and White kids are "less capable" in this instance...
relying solely on a test score is a dumb admission policy and does not reflect who is the most capable of leadership and success.
Are you arguing with ~85 years of success?
"In 1934, Stuyvesant implemented a system of entrance examinations. The examination was developed with the assistance of Columbia University, and the program was later expanded to include the newly founded Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech.[4]
Their status as specialized schools was frequently threatened by factions within the New York City school system and government. As a way to preserve their special status, in 1972, the Hecht-Calandra Act was passed by the New York State Legislature, designating these schools as specialized science and math high schools for New York City. The Act called for a uniform exam in math and science to be administered for admission to these schools, in keeping with the uniform examination that had already been required by the New York City Board of Education for admission to these schools."
By the way, the criteria was set up to ensure that spots could not be bought...
One performs or they do not get in.
If you method of evaluating students produces results that don't pass the smell test, you need to re-examine your method of evaluation. Again, there's gobs and gobs of research about how standardized tests are frequently biased.
Sean,
Again with your smell test being based on "equal outcomes"...
By this, I assume you believe that they should kick a bunch of hard working Asian kids out of these top tier schools to make room for kids of other races?
The unfortunate reality is that most of the Chinese and Korean people I work with are dedicated to very traditional family types, and absolutely dedicated to their children / academics. And the result show in their capabilities.
Then you have many American families that are broken and not too focused on academics... It is too bad for the kids.
I'm not suggesting that the schools need to exactly reflect the diversity of the district as a whole. This result, though, is wildly out of line and merits additional reflection on whether the right method is being used to judge who is capable.
In this case, if the standardized tests are biased, then they seem to favor Asians over whites since 62 percent of the enrollment of the selective schools is Asian with a student population of just 16 percent versus 29 percent white enrollment with a student population of 14 percent.
Molly
Just curious, how would your answer have been different if it was mostly white kids in the school?
Would you have focused on the "criteria"?
or
Would you have focused on "racism"?
Molly, Maybe they are written in Chinese... :-)
"Would you have focused on the "criteria"?"
I never used the word criteria, so it's odd for you to be putting it in quotes when commenting back to me. But that's typical of your lack of paying attention to what is actually being said.
"Would you have focused on "racism"?"
You're the one who clearly has a hangup on this, not me. My statements have been crystal clear.
Sorry... To me "the right method is being used to judge who is capable" equals "criteria". Do you disagree?
And what am I supposed to use when I paraphrase? single quotes? :-)
Well you clearly see variations in suspensions, arrests, punishments, etc as a racism issue. I am just wondering if you see this as such since it is the Caucasian students who are also being left out, and a minority group who is doing great? (ie different results)
So when the white kids are doing great for some reason, racism must be involved...
And when the Asian kids are doing great for some reason, racism must be involved???
Or is variation simply normal in our very complex world.
I don't know if it's a racism issue or not, since this is a fairly specialized and localized thing. When you see something like school suspensions or what is happening in criminal sentencing where you have data from lots of similar processes showing the same thing occurring, you can draw broader conclusions. In this case, all I've suggested is that since the results seem so out of whack that they should take a look at what's going on and consider if the test is really the right way to go about it.
Where as I see this as pretty much the same issue...
Kids with Parents who put them first, provide excellent role models, emphasize academics, hold them accountable when they screw up and push them to excel do better and get in less trouble.
Just like in the RDale schools... :-)
And yes it is a bummer that not every kid is born into a family with parents like those Asian parents.
"Kids with Parents who put them first, provide excellent role models, emphasize academics, hold them accountable when they screw up and push them to excel do better and get in less trouble."
You can't know ANY of that to be true in this case.
Moose
Are you saying that being a good parent has no benefits?
And that being a not so good parent has no negative consequences?
Couldn't you have told me that ~24 years ago, I could saved a lot of time, effort, money, stress, etc... :-)
By the way, I do acknowledge that there are a few cases of:
- troubled kids coming from good homes
- successful kids coming from not so good homes
But they are outliers, parenting matters big time...
Or do you think the Asian kids are just genetical superior?
I'm saying that you can't possibly know those things to be true in regards to this case. Because that is what I said. I meant what I said. There's nothing there for you to figure out or surmise or assume.
You want to know why you can't know? Because you don't know the test. It's very simple.
Moose
You are correct...
It may be written in Chinese...
But I doubt it...
Related article in today’s paper:
article
Molly
Star Tribune New Law Triggers Battle
Next they will want to seperate Black to their source country. :-)
Category Reading Math
South Asian 87% 79%
Asian (all), non-EL* 83% 69%
Chinese 83% 83%
White 81% 63%
Vietnamese 73% 64%
Asian (all)66% 55%
Cambodian 58% 40%
Lao 57% 40%
American Indian 54% 31%
Hispanic or Latino 53% 32%
Black or African American 52% 28%
Hmong 47% 37%
Asian (all), EL* 39% 33%
Burmese** 17% 12%
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