Minnpost Should Minnesota grade its schools?
I think this was an interesting article, however unfortunately it seems that one should just avoid the purple areas whenever possible. :-(
It looks like Jie Ming Mandarin Immersion is an outlier... But then again it is 60+% Asian and White.. And 25% poverty, so I am pretty sure its demographics vary greatly from the community.
And Great Schools does offer some detail.
But I like the MN DOE Report Card better.
Great Schools Map
I think this was an interesting article, however unfortunately it seems that one should just avoid the purple areas whenever possible. :-(
It looks like Jie Ming Mandarin Immersion is an outlier... But then again it is 60+% Asian and White.. And 25% poverty, so I am pretty sure its demographics vary greatly from the community.
And Great Schools does offer some detail.
But I like the MN DOE Report Card better.
Great Schools Map
38 comments:
Yep... Jie Ming is very different than Hamline Elementary.
Should Blake get an "F" in years when it doesn't send enough of it's kids to Harvard?
==Hiram
Maybe... Since apparently Privates do not show up in the MN DOE Report card...
Niche Report Card for Privates
Here is an interesting take on the subject. All it confirms to me is that "high expectations" are the critical element in the schools, and we have gone the other direction out of political correctness.
two ways
Are you sure you got the correct link?
This look like my type of article... :-)
"The school system has no obligation to make sure one set of students performs as well and learns as much as another. Its obligation is to provide every student with the opportunity to learn and perform.
This doesn’t always mean treating all students the same. For example, if students are handicapped due to a language barrier, schools should address that problem. If students are behind in reading, schools should provide remedial programs.
But if you need a remedial program, you are already suffering from an achievement gap. The remedial program, though it might well help you read better, may not help you close the gap because the best readers will keep improving, as they move from strength to strength."
"What’s more important to minority students and their parents, affirming victim status or putting in the work both at home and in the classroom that has always been associated with high achievement?"
As I said, this article "bridges the gap" between your ideas and mine. It concedes that minority students may start behind. It says most minority parents want a good education for their kids. It says schools should offer equal opportunity but that some kids will always do better than others. Again, what all that tells me is that "high expectations" are the critical element in the schools, and we have gone the other direction out of political correctness -- the "soft bigotry of low expectations"
And I think they have the math wrong. If I can cut the "failure rate" by 25%, then the students at 90% of success get to 92.5%, while the kids at 30% go to 47.5%. The "gap" got narrower by 15%.
And it is always easier to raise the bottom than the top.
The challenge is though that the students at the top have much more effective lobbyists (ie parents) who have more power.
Shifting resources away from their children to help the unlucky kids often results in rebellion or families / funding departing. :-)
Nonsense. Minneapolis schools spend almost TWICE the state average. From where I sit, high expectations costs nothing. Helping the poor kids achieve up to those expectations is where the money should be going, but obviously isn't. I am guessing that it costs more to handle LOW expectations.
Source please...
Here are the demographics of one of the worst and one of the best districts
A little digging.
MPS $620 mil 35,580 students $17,425
Wayzata $163 mil 11,948 students $13,642
MPS Projected Expenses
Wayzata Budget
My stats come from the State Dept of Education. Wayzata isn't average.
Please share the source link.
My data is a few years old. It's now somewhere in here:
MDE datacenter
If I get a better link I will post it. Or you can trust the data I so laboriously extracted and analyzed years ago. Just as I've done with the proposed Social Security reform.
MPS:
Number of Students (ADM) 37,365
Per Student - General Fund $15,709
Burnsville
Number of Students (ADM) 9,043
Per Student - General Fund $13,868
Statewide:
Number of Students (ADM) 878,607
Per Student - General Fund $12,691
Delano:
Number of Students (ADM) 2,506
Per Student - General Fund $11,076
Demographics for the 3 districts.
Doesn't match the numbers I have. First, I don't believe ADM is a measure of how many students. K-5 is .5 ADM, HS is like 2.0 ADM. And your "per student" number doesn't look right at all. What you need is total budget dived by student population. My figures range from about $6k to over $20k, when I did the math. And if you are trying to say demographics matter that much, you are denying the whole thrust of the article I cited.
Since you have no source...
I think I will stick with the MDE numbers.
I have the whole chart, from MDE. Just because neither of us can find it doesn't make me a liar. Looking at the MPS website, it looks like almost $17,000/student.
Here, let me post part of the data and you can make your own chart. It is quite clear that money doesn't matter. I charted all 300+ districts. Let's see:
"Districtname" "District
Number" Per Pupil spending Average Reading Score Average Math Score
TOTAL 9999 $9,989 52.6 38.5
A.C.G.C. 2396 $9,813 50 33.2
ACADEMIA CESAR CHAVEZ CHARTER SCH. 4073 $12,262 51.3 35.9
ACHIEVE LANGUAGE ACADEMY 4018 $10,211 44.1 30.5
ADA-BORUP PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 2854 $10,275 51.4 38.9
ADRIAN PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 511 $8,907 54 44.1
AITKIN PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 1 $7,916 51.4 40.5
ALBANY PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 745 $8,015 51.8 42.1
ALBERT LEA PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 241 $10,378 51.6 37
ALDEN-CONGER PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 242 $9,218 52.5 33.3
ALEXANDRIA PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 206 $9,499 52.8 41.8
ANNANDALE PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 876 $9,218 51 38.4
ANOKA-HENNEPIN PUBLIC SCHOOL DIST. 11 $10,060 53 40.3
ARTECH 4091 $11,107 52.2 33.4
ASHBY PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 261 $8,850 52.1 40.2
AURORA CHARTER SCHOOL 4067 $10,552 39.7 24.4
AUSTIN PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 492 $10,412 53.3 38.9
AVALON SCHOOL 4075 $11,221 50.2 30.8
BADGER PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 676 $10,754 52.4 33.9
BAGLEY PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 162 $10,035 45.5 31
BARNESVILLE PUBLIC SCHOOL DIST. 146 $9,219 50.2 31.5
BARNUM PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 91 $8,514 53.7 35.2
BATTLE LAKE PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 542 $8,545 51.2 39.8
BEACON ACADEMY 4124 $8,868 54.2 38.4
BECKER PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 726 $8,394 50 41.8
BELGRADE-BROOTEN-ELROSA SCHOOL DIST 2364 $9,291 51.1 38.7
BELLE PLAINE PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 716 $8,261 49.6 39.9
BEMIDJI PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 31 $10,421 50.1 37.2
BENSON PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 777 $9,827 49 41.1
BERTHA-HEWITT PUBLIC SCHOOL DIST. 786 $9,548 0 0
BEST ACADEMY 4192 $12,250 43.1 33.1
BIG LAKE PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 727 $7,129 49.2 33.8
BIRD ISLAND-OLIVIA-LAKE LILLIAN 2534 $9,090 48.1 41.1
BLACKDUCK PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 32 $10,403 48.8 37.6
BLOOMING PRAIRIE PUBLIC SCHOOL DIST 756 $8,846 52.9 37.3
BLOOMINGTON PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 271 $10,083 55.5 39.4
BLUE EARTH AREA PUBLIC SCHOOL 2860 $9,874 50.9 39.7
BLUESKY CHARTER SCHOOL 4082 $7,188 47.1 24
BLUFFVIEW MONTESSORI 4001 $10,135 55.5 41.2
BRAHAM PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 314 $8,895 49.2 33.3
BRAINERD PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 181 $9,844 54.6 41.2
BRANDON PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 207 $9,189 51 38.6
BRECKENRIDGE PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 846 $9,072 49.8 34.7
BROOKLYN CENTER SCHOOL DISTRICT 286 $11,140 40.9 25.9
BROWERVILLE PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 787 $9,841 47.1 34.7
BROWNS VALLEY PUBLIC SCHOOL DIST. 801 $12,017 54.9 41.6
BUFFALO LAKE-HECTOR SCHOOL DISTRICT 2159 $9,276 49.4 34
BUFFALO PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 877 $8,641 50 40.3
BURNSVILLE PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 191 $10,269 53.9 38.4
BUTTERFIELD PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 836 $10,003 44.1 29.2
BYRON PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 531 $7,438 52.2 42.7
CALEDONIA PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 299 $10,304 53.9 39.2
CAMBRIDGE-ISANTI PUBLIC SCHOOL DIST 911 $7,451 53.8 41.2
CAMPBELL-TINTAH PUBLIC SCHOOL DIST. 852 $13,631 0 0
CANBY PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 891 $10,804 51.9 38.3
CANNON FALLS PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 252 $8,134 51 40.2
CARLTON PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT 93 $10,368 48.2 35.1
CASS LAKE-BENA PUBLIC SCHOOLS 115 $14,577 44.3 31.1
I don't think you are lying, I just think you are wrong and maybe dated.
Here is the current data for Anoka Hennepin
Number of Students (ADM) 38,557
Per Student - General Fund $12,870
And I think you need to compare apples to apples. Comparing my home town school with MPS is somewhat pointless. Living cost are quite different out there.
Canby Schools
Number of Students (ADM) 564
Per Student - General Fund $12,167
And yes my rough numbers from above are:
MPS $620 mil 35,580 students $17,425
Wayzata $163 mil 11,948 students $13,642
Compared to MDE's
MPS:
Number of Students (ADM) 37,365
Per Student - General Fund $15,709
Wayzata:
Number of Students (ADM) 11,684
Per Student - General Fund $13,320
So maybe MDE does not include local funding?
Or I was inconsistent with which budget line I used. :-)
I like these 4 comparison districts best... Each is in the cities.
The first 2 struggle and the second 2 do pretty good.
MPS:
Number of Students (ADM) 37,365
Per Student - General Fund $15,709
Burnsville:
Number of Students (ADM) 9,043
Per Student - General Fund $13,868
Wayzata:
Number of Students (ADM) 11,684
Per Student - General Fund $13,320
Anoka Hennepin:
Number of Students (ADM) 38,557
Per Student - General Fund $12,870
Well, somehow the differences are not as pronounced as they are on my chart, but the conclusions, I think, are the same: the amount of money spent does not determine academic results. That is exactly what I think the article is telling us, which is that high expectations plus effective remediation works far better than dumbing down the curriculum or "the soft bigotry of low expectations."
And I still don't think "ADM" is equivalent to total number of students. That may be the difference. Remember that 1 3rd grader is 0.5 ADM.
You are correct, money does not influence results. At least as much as the quality of parenting.
As for ADM calculations
You could be right. The overall statistics say that schools that spend more money perform LESS well. At the same time, schools with the same spending vary widely in their performance. Surely something other than money spent OR demographics plays the predominant role. I claim that is high expectations, good teachers, and an effective discipline policy. The latter is made far easier by the first two.
But of course those are not politically correct, so...
Please feel free to stay in your denial bubble.
Parenting is causal factor #1. As it should be.
OK, I'm happy to admit that, as soon as you admit that there is no purpose served by the public school system and we should just save all the money we spend on them. Demography is destiny, and that's that.
Demography is not destiny.
We have to hold parent(s) accountable.
Something you refuse to acknowledge.
OK, Big Brother. How are you possibly going to house, feed and educate all of those kids at your house, having declared their parents incapable of raising them properly?
Has it occurred to you that simple "high expectations," as cited in that study, work wonders for students and for parents alike? As I've always said, you offer parents an opportunity they do not currently have, and almost all will take advantage of it. The longer you let the schools escape responsibility by blaming parents, the longer schools will continue to fail, taking kids and parents with them.
It is kind of funny that all the "terrible schools" are where the poor people are?
I wonder why?
Because the schools do not adapt to their environment. The "soft bigotry of low expectations" holds sway, and schools get "paid" whether the kids learn or not.
It seems to me that the parent(s) continue to get paid no matter what also.
I would happily fix that.
And by the way, the schools do lose money when they are failing to work miracles. RDale at one time had ~30,000 children, now they have ~12,500.
At $13,000 per head that is $227,500,000 per year they have lost.
Correction: Rdale
Number of Students (ADM) 12,493
Per Student $13,325
Awww, isn't that sad? A business that is failing to deliver what was promised and is priced too high loses customers? Since kids are required to attend school, all of those lost "customers" simply took their business elsewhere, where we must assume they found better service. Exactly what SHOULD happen.
And your way of looking at this sounds like a liberal Democrat: All money belongs to the State/public schools and anything they let you keep is a gift. As it is, though, parents are paying to feed, clothe, and house those kids AND they are paying the taxes for the public schools, whether their kids attend or not. We all willingly pay taxes for this "common good" of freeing the next generation from poverty [education, the great equalizer] and in far too many cases we are not getting what we pay for. It is deliberately so and instead of throwing more money at them, we should be setting some expectations for the schools themselves, which they can best meet by setting high expectations for their students collectively and individually, and helping them get there.
Maybe we should adopt a capitalistic model where these schools can turn down "customers" who cost more than they bring in?
Kind of like the privates can...
I have no problem with setting high expectations...
However I want to hold parent(s), social workers and schools accountable. Where as you want to place the whole burden on one leg of the stool.
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