Trump continues to stoke hate, this time by taking words out of context and misusing them.
VOX Democrats unite to condemn Trump tweet linking Ilhan Omar and 9/11
The president’s tweet takes a clip of an Omar speech and combines it with footage from 9/11
FOX News Dems defend Omar after Trump retweets video against her
VOX Democrats unite to condemn Trump tweet linking Ilhan Omar and 9/11
The president’s tweet takes a clip of an Omar speech and combines it with footage from 9/11
FOX News Dems defend Omar after Trump retweets video against her
“Far too long we have lived with the discomfort of being a second-class citizen, and frankly, I’m tired of it, and every single Muslim in this country should be tired of it,” Omar said. “CAIR was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties.”I mean her statement seems pretty correct to me, though she maybe should have said "some people committed a horrific act of terror". The reality though is that she is simply saying that a whole population should not be judged guilty by the acts of a few. And that is SO TRUE, or us gun owners would all be guilty of thousands of deaths through our gun loving belief system.
63 comments:
It's good to see Minnesota Republicans coming to her defense.
--Hiram
And yet millions of gun owners ARE blamed for every gun death by one single lunatic, usually one who is not even a legal gun owner.
And she is wrong. I don't think all Muslims were blamed nor did they all lose their civil rights (unless they were in the Twin Towers at the time). If anything, all of us were subjected to wave after wave of TSA madness that bruised our civil rights and personal dignity, just to avoid the reality that EVERY ONE of the 9/11 hijackers was a young [radical] Muslim male. SO, rather than "violate the civil rights" of young radical Muslim males, /Everybody/ must be scanned and groped, and prohibited from taking a week's worth of shampoo on their two-week trip.
Hiram,
Too bad not all of us understand that only the guilty should be held accountable.
Jerry,
People don't blame all gun owners, they blame the process and laws that allow unnecessary highly dangerous weapons to be sold into the private market.
So, since White males commit a lot of the gun violence. Should we be subject to more intense searches and monitoring?
Now I do agree that selective screening would be more efficient, but apparently it is against the law. And there is always a chance that a woman could be a terrorist in the future.
"Green began writing “Presumed Guilty” almost a decade ago. Since then, he told RNS, Islamophobia has gotten worse. In recent years, anti-Muslim hate crimes have reached a record high, far exceeding the spike in attacks that occurred in the wake of 9/11.
Green cites the way Islamophobia has become a campaign tool used to galvanize voters. During their presidential campaigns, now-President Trump famously said “I think Islam hates us”; now-Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Ben Carson said Muslims shouldn’t be allowed to become president; and Sen. Ted Cruz talked about patrolling Muslim neighborhoods.
While Green has plenty to criticize in the Bush administration’s response to 9/11, he recalls how President George W. Bush moved to quell distrust of Muslims in the days after the attacks.
“We have regressed very far from his defense of Islam as a religion of peace,” Green told RNS. “I can’t imagine any major Republican candidate in the last election cycle using that language.”
Hate crime stats
The part of her statement that is inaccurate is that “CAIR was founded after 9/11”, from what I gather it was founded in 1994.
Molly
One of the articles I read noted that she had issued a correction.
Apparently CAIR "doubled in membership" after 9/11.
Here is where I read the correction and some of Trump's past insensitive comments about 9/11.
And yet millions of gun owners ARE blamed for every gun death by one single lunatic, usually one who is not even a legal gun owner.
Is it a question of blaming gun owners? Or just a belief that people shouldn't be allowed to have guns?
--Hiram
Eric at MinnPost
It´s been a long time since I posted an anti Trump article. Unfortunately one of the keys needed to create a hyperlink doesn´t work on my laptop.
https://prospect.org/article/trump-takes-dividing-nation-new-level
Hi Laurie,
I am there for you.
Prospect Trump Dividing the Nation
I guess I do not see these as quite correct... I mean:
1. I agree with limiting the State Tax deduction. Just because one lives in a high tax state is no good excuse for not paying one's full share of the federal taxes. Especially when you are from a State who demands that level of federal spending.
"When Republicans passed a tax plan in 2017, they limited the deduction for state and local taxes, knowing full well that it would hit taxpayers in relatively high-tax blue states much harder."
2. Illegal residents ARE NOT immigrants, and I sure do not think we should give States who harbor illegal residents more federal representatives and funding for that reason.
"They are trying to add a citizenship question to the Census with the clear intent of undercounting areas with lots of immigrants, so those areas can then be starved of resources and political power."
3. What he thinks is always suspect, and these places swear that they want to help and protect illegal residents... So let them put their money where their mouth is.
"And now, President Trump is hoping to send crime and chaos to areas of the country that have earned his wrath by failing to support him."
Otherwise the piece seemed okay.
"Illegal residents ARE NOT immigrants, and I sure do not think we should give States who harbor illegal residents more federal representatives and funding for that reason."
The Constitution doesn't state that the Census should count "citizens", it says it should count "persons" -- a definition which has always included citizens and non-citizens.
Illegal residents ARE NOT immigrants, and I sure do not think we should give States who harbor illegal residents more federal representatives and funding for that reason.
I don't know, necessarily, why they can't be. Merriam Webster, my go to dictionary defines Immigrant as "a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence". There is no reference to legality or lack thereof.
States don't harbor people, they serve them. Some thing we should remember is that the purpose of using loaded terms is to distort our understanding of issues. They are tools people who think you are a fool use to play you. "Illegal" especially in this context is one such word. What the person who uses wants to do is conflate the term illegal with the term crime. He wants you to think that someone who is here illegally is committing a crime. Of course they are not. Simply being here is a status, not an act. and in Anglo American jurisprudence, acts are crimes not status. For a different approach, I refer you to Nazi Germany where people were punished for who they were, not necessarily what they did.
Immigrants, legal or otherwise, are human beings, and humanity is an infinitely more important thing to be than a citizen. Donald Trump is at his most evil when he, in very explicit terms, tries to dehumanize our fellow human beings.
--Hiram
Sean,
Maybe our founding Father's never thought citizens would be tolerant of allowing 10+ million illegal residents to stay in the country.
Hiram,
Being in the USA without legal papers is similar to double parking... Both are illegal.
As for USA Definitions, here you go.
"Alien An individual who is not a U.S. citizen or U.S. national."
"Immigrant An alien who has been granted the right by the USCIS to reside permanently in the United States and to work without restrictions in the United States. Such an individual is also known known as a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR). All immigrants are eventually issued a "green card" (USCIS Form I-551), which is the evidence of the alien’s LPR status. LPR’s who are awaiting the issuance of their green cards may bear an I-551 stamp in their foreign passports."
"Undocumented Alien An alien who entered the United States illegally without the proper authorization and documents, or who entered the United States legally and has since violated the terms of his or her visa or overstayed the time limit. An undocumented alien is deportable if apprehended."
So I guess the proper term for all these folks is "Undocumented Alien". :-)
NPR SCOTUS to Decide
So do you guys really think that MN should lose a State Representative and Federal funding because other States harbor more "Undocumented Aliens"?
No wonder California has so many Reps
So if I’m understanding this right, the census counts non-citizens that are here legally but excludes the non-citizens here illegally. Seems reasonable.
Molly
Do I think the Census should count the actual number of people living in the U.S.? Yes, I do.
Sean,
That was not the question.
If we ask about status we can do both.
Molly, currently they count everyone. Legal or not.
Your question is the wrong question, so I answered the correct question.
So I guess the proper term for all these folks is "Undocumented Alien". :-)
That has always been the preferred term. Anti immigration folks don't like it because it doesn't imply criminality.
--Hiram
So do you guys really think that MN should lose a State Representative and Federal funding because other States harbor more "Undocumented Aliens"?
"Should" isn't the relevant here. It's a question of what the law provides. If you don't like the law, you can always change it. Since the founding of the republic, it's always been the case that representation is based on the number of residents, not on number of citizens. That's what the Constitution clearly provides.
For me, the reason I would put a citizenship question in the census would be to lower the response level.
--Hiram
Sean, Well I hope the SCOTUS answers correctly. :-)
Molly, Now that I am back at a keyboard. There is a reason that California is suing.
If 2+ of the 39+ million of the persons living in their state are illegal.
Anything that reduces the count could impact their funds... And Fed reps...
Hiram,
I think "Illegal Immigrant" sounds better than "Undocumented Alien"...
The latter gives me flashback to Aliens...
Going back to the original topic of this post, it's very clear that "political correctness" is not merely a left-wing phenomenon.
I think we should ask for status. I don’t think we should count people who broke the law to get here.
Molly
Sean,
Both sides definitely like to play games and talk out of both sides of their mouths.
I suppose that is why they became politicians.
Molly,
That is my position also.
I think "Illegal Immigrant" sounds better than "Undocumented Alien"..
And the rhetorical advantage is that it suggests criminality without actually claiming it. And it's not inaccurate. But the fact is, being here illegally, unlike double parking is not a crime, and we need to be careful that's someone's loaded word choice doesn't suggest otherwise.
--Hiram
Hiram,
Don't you get tired of spreading that mistruth? For more on that
"She states that she is NOT a criminal, however she most certainly IS a criminal." T Reeves
It is not that simple. Legal experts say unlawful presence in the US by itself is not a crime in most cases. It is, however, a civil violation that puts the person at risk of being deported, a lengthy process.
However, unlawful entry is a misdemeanor. So someone who is in the US without a valid permit could be breaking the law by having entered the country illegally."
Both Civil Offenses and Crimes are violations of law... Illegal...
By the way, there are 4 links up there. :-)
In order to sustain "unlawful presence," many other laws must be broken, from driving without a license up through fraud and misrepresentation, among many others. Put simply, they are not supposed to be here, and therefore should not be counted.
I think what I said is that being here illegally is not a crime. Now obviously, people in the United States can commit crimes, but being here illegally is not one of them.
The reason why sophisticated political operators use the term "Illegal alien" is to fool an unknowledgeable public into thinking a crime has been committed without evidence. People who do that are in bad faith, and their credibility on other issues must be suspect.
"In order to sustain "unlawful presence," many other laws must be broken, from driving without a license up through fraud and misrepresentation, among many others."
There are lots of crimes out there. It just so happens that being here illegally is not one of them.
--Hiram
Hiram...
You wrote... "being here illegally, unlike double parking is not a crime,"
If you see double parking as a crime...
Then you should see being an undocumented alien as a crime...
But they are both are actually illegal Civil Violations...
If you see double parking as a crime...
Then you should see being an undocumented alien as a crime...
How can I see being an undocumented alien as a crime when it isn't?
--Hiram
Look at this way. People who double park have to pay a fine. What's the fine for being here illegally?
--Hiram
You can be forced to go to court and be deported...
Didn't you read the links...
OK, I see Hiram's point now. Illegal aliens have not committed a crime just by being here; they are simply breaking the law. They may have committed a crime in how they came here, and they have committed many other crimes to stay here, so I fail to see why they shouldn't all be deported immediately.
Correct... But does it matter if they are violating a criminal or civil law?
Either way they I would say the terms illegal residents or illegal aliens are correct...
I mean if I get that ticket for double parking, it seems to me that I have done something illegal. And I will either need to submit to the penalty or go before a judge and plead my case.
Remember that this all started when Hiram stated:
"Some thing we should remember is that the purpose of using loaded terms is to distort our understanding of issues. They are tools people who think you are a fool use to play you. "Illegal" especially in this context is one such word. What the person who uses wants to do is conflate the term illegal with the term crime. He wants you to think that someone who is here illegally is committing a crime. Of course they are not. Simply being here is a status, not an act. and in Anglo American jurisprudence, acts are crimes not status. For a different approach, I refer you to Nazi Germany where people were punished for who they were, not necessarily what they did."
So when you say "Illegal Alien" are you trying to be accurate?
Or trying to manipulate people?
But does it matter if they are violating a criminal or civil law?
It does to people who are trying to imply criminality. That's why they select the term "illegal" in preference to "undocumented"
In strict terms, it's okay to use the term "illegal". The problem is that in using that term, one largely empties it of meaning. It doesn't mean a crime has been committed. It doesn't mean the violation of any moral rule. It isn't determinative of any relevant legal issue. The sole point of using the word in this context in a way that tends to avoid an outright lie. It's why the use of the word is a tell.
--Hiram
From my perception, you are incorrect...
In our society we often say:
- it is illegal to park that way
- it is illegal lie on a form
- etc
I have no issue saying that it is illegal for these folks to be here as undocumented aliens.
Just because we often say things doesn't mean they are true.
In this case, there was an accepted term for the people we are talking about, and it was "undocumented aliens". It was meaningful, but there was a problem with it for many people. It didn't suggest criminality. So a lot of people who see language as more of a weapon than a means to communicate started substituting "illegal alien" for "undocumented alien". Knowing they were dealing with a gullible, unsophisticated audience, they knew they could gain a political advantage by gaming words in this manner. The price is a loss of credibility. To people who do understand words, the question is, if they are going to be deceptive on this, what else are they going to deceive us about?
--Hiram
Hiram, your terminology just denies reality. Someone who came here illegally is an illegal alien, period. Their presence here is PROOF that they came here illegally, and that is a crime. And since staying here requires them to commit many other crimes-- felonies, misdemeanors and civil violations-- the proper term is probably "illegal CRIMINAL aliens." Better?
Someone who came here illegally is an illegal alien, period.
Oh sure, but that doesn't mean anything.
Someone who came here illegally is an illegal alien, period.
Well no, lots of people who came here legally are illegal aliens.
And since staying here requires them to commit many other crimes-- felonies, misdemeanors and civil violations-- the proper term is probably "illegal CRIMINAL aliens."
Speculation on your part. If you want to convict someone of a crime, you have to prove it, in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt. Unsupported accusations don't count.
--Hiram
"Their presence here is PROOF that they came here illegally..."
False.
Moose
Back when I worked in pensions a long time ago, the term illegal aliens was used in pension plan documents. They could not to be counted as plan participants. So I don’t it’s a new term.
Hiram, so don’t think it is a recent thing that people started substituting illegal alien for undocumented alien.
Molly
Hiram,
So you would never say that "he parked illegally"?
All,
Apparently "Over Staying a VISA" is also illegal...
Though again it is "violating our civil ordinances.
Look at all these Mpls City Civil Ordinances
For the curiosity I looked up alien...
"a foreign-born resident who has not been naturalized and is still a subject or citizen of a foreign country"
Or you have my favorite aliens :-)
So you would never say that "he parked illegally"?
I would, but I wouldn't say I aliened illegally.
In a pension context, I just don't know what illegal alien means. If someone earned a pension, I would think he would get it no matter what his citizenship status. To deny that person a pension, the illegality, I think would require something more.
--Hiram
I believe it meant people without a green card. It was illegal for the employer to have them on their payroll. Only employees that were legally employed were eligible to accrue benefits under a defined benefit plan.
Molly
It was illegal for the employer to have them on their payroll.
Was the employer arguing that it didn't have to pay employees for services received because they were here illegally?
--Hiram
Part of the reason for using the term "illegal aliens" is to create the impression that such people are outlaws, not entitled to the protection of law. Businesses do that. They hire illegal aliens, and then claim that their status means that they can get out of their obligations to such employees. I can't rule out that there are some businesses who will deny employees pension benefits they have otherwise earned on the basis of a lack of citizenship. But that's just another reason why the term "illegal alien" is suspect.
--Hiram
I think back then, some of these employers might not have known whether the people they hired were citizens or not. They did understood the language in their pension plan document either. So excluding them was not intentional. I remember talking to them and they were disappointed that so and so from the kitchen was not included in the pension plan.
Legal Guest worker program with nationwide e-Verify requirement solves a lot of these problems.
I think back then, some of these employers might not have known whether the people they hired were citizens or not.
No one is better at not knowing things than our president. It is the weakness of our legal system in that it requires guilty states of mind, when we don't know what others are thinking.
--Hiram
Hiram,
I am guessing that reputable companies with pensions did not hire undocumented aliens. I am guessing they were hiring an individual with forged paperwork.
Therefore they really do not owe this person who committed fraud much of anything.
Post a Comment